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    Default Is Cyber a new warfare? Debate (catch all)

    marct, you are correct. This was DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attack. If I remember correctly couple months ago there was info that US military established some kind of cyberroom protection command. I hope that NATO transformation command will keep eye on this issue. I thought yesterday morning that it's just internet that is not working, my gsm is ok. Then I remebered that 1 or 2 years ago there was mobile phone virus attack during Helsinki sports competition. 1 criminal just launched signal that spred like virus among people that had internet connection in their phones. This is the way we are going now. You don't have to bomb your enemy's infrastructure to influence his will. Maybe I'm underestimateing people and in the end we all like to live like Tyler dremt in "Fight Club", we all need just pair of leather pants to walk in this life

    PS. Estonian ambassador left Moscow. This was just postive move by Estonia to help Russian elite to save their face after EU and NATO told them back off. You just can't tell kids, "Hey, this is enough. Go home!" Instead they said "Good job. You accomplished your mission!" Interesting is also this that Russian Duma delegation that visited Estonia were satisfied wiht things they saw in Estonia (statue was ok, police acted according to law etc). They couldn't say this after arriving to Moscow on Tuesday. Thay said this only after Kremlin told youth movements "Go home." on Thursday afternoon.

    Here is BBC story about Nashi with Surkov's comment.
    "But of course we contact and support those who support us."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6624549.stm
    Last edited by kaur; 05-05-2007 at 12:38 PM.

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the detailed post, Kaur !

    A good case in point is the script kiddies cyber attack - am I right in assuming it was a Denial Of Service (DOS) attack? If so, the scripts for that type of attack are readily available to any 10 year old - you don't even have to go to the dark net to get them . The question now is how are the service providers (and government) responding? What sort of IO campaign is Estonia going to put together for the international community? What sort of help are they asking for from NATO and the EU?
    Hi Marc ! I translated the questionable link from last night and pasted it on the post. Sorry 'bout that ! You know, there are approx. 15,000 Estonians in Canada. Would it be fair to say you don't know any of them ?

    Anyway, my 2 cents:

    The Ministry gurus and some local providers commented that DDoS attacks are very easy to employ, but not that easy to nail down. The perpetrators often find links to regenerate disruptions and these are taken out or blocked one at a time. Most of our Ministry servers have merely created blanket blocking of outside connections until such time as they can get a handle on the disruptions. Last night, I couldn't get the SWJ site back, but most of the Estonian sites came up quickly.

    We would all like to think that recent US and NATO grievances were key to halting disturbances in front of Estonia's Embassy in Moscow and I think Kaur hit it on the head, we can't simply slap them without a means of saving face. Sounds very African or tribal, but that always seems to be the case. Ambassador Kaljulaid's departure allowed them that face saving and gave them a way out. Well, that's what they say

    The Rossiya Molodaya (Young Russia) youth movement said the departure of the Estonian ambassador from Moscow was a "significant victory."

    The only hint of a positive development in recent days came on May 3 when the pro-Kremlin youth groups, whose members had been blockading the Estonian embassy in Moscow, ended their seige, citing the reason that Estonian ambassador Marina Kaljulaid had left the country.
    With the exception of the Prime Minister calling on the EU to speak, I don't know that Estonia openly asked for much assistance. The calls from NATO and the USA to Estonia's President and Prime Minister expressing support were key. The other former east bloc countries certainly played a role, but they don't have the 'bang' like NATO, the US Senate and Canada's Parliament.

    Regards, Stan
    Last edited by Stan; 05-05-2007 at 11:22 AM.

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    Default Estonia holds suspect over 'cyber-attacks'

    An inside man no less. Can't the Kremlin surf Google anymore ?

    Police arrested Saturday a 19-year-old Tallinn resident who is suspected of involvement in a wave of attacks against Estonian computer servers.

    "The criminal police have detained the first person who stands accused in involvement in the recent cyber-attacks against Estonian servers," Kristiina Herodes, spokeswoman for the Estonian prosecutor's office, told AFP.

    "Dmitri was posting on Internet forums calls to organise mass attacks against Estonian servers, called the DdoS attacks," Herodes said.

    "He collected addresses of crucial Internet sites in Estonia and passed them in various Internet forums, instructing users to attack servers in Estonia," she said.

    "Dmitri is the first person detained, but the investigation continues, as many of the attacks came from abroad, including from Russia," she said.

    Many government web sites in Estonia have been forced to shut down during the past week because of the attacks.

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    Default First cyber attacker arrested

    Well, Dmitri was not so innocent afterall

    Dmitri, a 19-year old resident of Tallinn and a student of higher technical education, was taken into custody today by the Central Criminal Police in connection with the recent cyber attacks against Estonia.

    Dmitri is suspected of computer sabotage and of damaging connections to the computer network (Penal Code §206 and § 207). He actively participated on various Internet forums helping to organise cyber attacks, announced the spokesperson of the Public Prosecutor’s Office.

    Dmitri independently volunteered and supervised other forum users in organizing the so-called DDoS attacks against several Estonian servers. As an Estonian resident, Dmitri had a good overview of the local Internet landscape and had the know-how for choosing targets. He instigated attacks against the web pages of local authorities as well as various political parties.

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    Default More on Dmitri?

    Hi Stan,

    Okay, I'll bite - can we get more information on him? Seriously, this is ringing off all sorts of pattern recognition bells in my mind. In particular, what forums was he posting on and who else goes there. Is this a parallel to how AQ recruits?

    Marc
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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default Cyber Wars ? "You are owned, Monkeys !

    Hmmm, anyone wondering what Putin woke up to this morning on his server

    The Estonian National Anthem has reportedly been 'cybered into' several Russian servers. Upon launching the site (I just tried it here), the Estonian's famous sinimustvalge begins

    Along with the nice music pops the Estonian flag with this underneath:



    Estonia forever!


    маскальским и сибирским л0хам превед из Таллина!

    Unfortunately, Estonia's IT experts feel the three sites are the work of the Russian youth and not patriotic Estonians. The links have been up too long and the Windows version used is Russian.

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default More on Dmitri - Just for you Marc !

    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi Stan,

    Okay, I'll bite - can we get more information on him? Seriously, this is ringing off all sorts of pattern recognition bells in my mind. In particular, what forums was he posting on and who else goes there. Is this a parallel to how AQ recruits?

    Marc
    I have no idea if this is how the AQ recruits. Estonian LE are calling him a criminal and little more. This is about all I could find from various info sources and the translations were 'quick and dirty'

    Summation:
    The attacks entailed a broad array of techniques, which started with mere spamming posts to later well-coordinated DDoS attacks against the government’s IT systems. The cyber attacks were coordinated in Russian over the internet from computer networks and servers in Russia. Detailed instructions on how to act included topics about the nature and execution of attacks, as well as information about potential targets and attack timing.

    Very basic instructions were disseminated on websites, in forums, and in chat spaces, precluding the user’s need for any knowledge or skills. The first attack took place on 27 April following the first night of rioting and was fairly simple. The portrait of the Prime Minister was defaced on the home page of the Reform Party (the PM with Hitler’s mustache) and initial DDoS attacks against Estonian government organizations. Some were successful, but normal operations were quickly restored.

    Dmitri’s Role:
    On the 28th however, serious attacks were being urged to forum members living in Estonia against Estonian web pages from addresses http://2ch.ru and http://forum.xaker.ru. Discussions were also taking place about how to finance the rental of server farms and botnets for a massive attack - A Trojan Horse application - needed to hijack computers. More than 1,500 users logged onto their chat lines and awaited instructions from the botnet. It is widely believed that, a Russian criminal gang rented the botnet in order to launch these attacks against Estonia.

    Simultaneous orders to attack were being disseminated via the internet. Although the vast majority were primitive, they were effective for the purposes of creating chaos and confusion. The attacks were also discussed and coordinated in IRC environments. Consequently, there was a large incremental increase in spontaneous attacks carried out by individuals. On the 30th a number of very complex and sophisticated attacks were launched.

    The attackers were able to dedicate substantial resources indicative of a well organized and financed enemy. By this time, the Estonian authorities had blocked the majority of internet traffic from ‘dot RU’ IP address extensions, as well as from many other foreign IPs. Somewhat later in the day the brunt of the attack shifted to the DNS system. Now seemingly human-friendly website names were utilized with the obvious intent of putting the entire DNS system out of commission, and cripple Estonia’s internet.

    During the first week of May, some of these attacks were able to achieve temporary success against telecommunications companies providing internet services and Estonian media publications. The attackers covered their tracks by using global bot networks (not all located in Russia), proxy servers in third countries, and by distorting their IP addresses.
    At least they're seeking help !


    Estonia to discuss cyber-attacks with NATO, EU


    Estonia is to raise the issue of how to handle cyber-attacks against state computer systems in meetings with partner member states of the NATO military alliance and European Union, officials said Friday.

    "If the ports of a NATO member country are under attack, it is considered an attack against the whole of NATO, and the military alliance comes to help," Defence Minister Jaak Aaviksoo said.
    Regards, Stan

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default Security incidents in Estonia's Internet domain

    "Last Friday, we hoped it was all over but the new massive attack against one of the biggest banks on Tuesday showed we were too optimistic.

    "Cyber-attacks also have been launched against banks, newspapers, schools and many other institutions".

    Estonia's second-biggest bank, Swedish-owned SEB Eesti Uhispank, was forced Tuesday to block access from abroad to its online banking service after it came under "massive cyber-attack".

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    Default Estonia, Nato and cyber warfare

    Nato has dispatched some of its top cyber-terrorism experts to Tallinn to investigate and to help the Estonians beef up their electronic defences.
    "This is an operational security issue, something we're taking very seriously," said an official at Nato headquarters in Brussels. "It goes to the heart of the alliance's modus operandi."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/art...081438,00.html

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    Default Cyber Warfare

    In an Op-ed piece in the NY Times, it is requesting that the Obama Administration start looking at cyber initiatives more closely. I am finding part of that struggle is just in lableing such things as cyberwarfare or is it information/computer warfare etc. Just trying to get a discussion going here.
    Attached is the Op-ed, really not much we dweebs haven't heard, read, thought or spoken of.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/op...21duelfer.html
    Enjoy.

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Since 1970 every year there is a substantive report written on computer/information/cyber security and what is needed to accomplish it. In 1980 the concepts of computer warfare was really getting going. Though the roots of cyber warfare can be found in the late 1950s work on cybernetics and even further back in the ideas of command and control through technology.

    Not that I know much about cyber warfare being an academic and all, but it would seem for anything to rise to the actual level of warfare all of the associated real world effects, needs, issues, and elements of war would have to exist. If zipping a high speed round through the cranial mass of a radio operator is an effective method of interrupting command and control, and a computer network operation has the same capability of interruption without the associated loss of life. How would you rate each on the test for perfidy?

    Much of what we see reported in the press would not seem to rise to the level of cyber warfare if our test is correct. Not that I know much about computers but defacing websites, and other hooligan tactics of disruption would not seem to be warfare anymore than riots are warfare. There may be death, and injury but a riot is not war. The Georgia and Estonia examples were very entertaining examples of the power of non-state actors and super-empowered individuals through technology to disrupt but not wage war.

    There always seems to be a debate between the low intensity conflict practitioners of COIN, small wars, 4GW etc.. and the High Intensity Conflict practitioners with Armor and 3GW blitzkrieg tactics. Regardless of the thinking behind it cyber warfare is deeply entrenched in the use of the communications systems and in any spectrum of conflict it would seem to be lurking about in the command and control system.

    As a separate entity of conflict cyber warfare could be considered to be disruption (severing and changing communications), destruction (wholesale slaughter of bits and bytes), and even kinetic (opening the flood gates on dams, blowing up generators remotely, causing weapons systems to cook off while in storage). But, I recently read that as an academic I likely don't have much to add to this discussion of practitioners.

    With that I'm off to have the elbow patches repaired on my sport jacket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    There always seems to be a debate between the low intensity conflict practitioners of COIN, small wars, 4GW etc.. and the High Intensity Conflict practitioners with Armor and 3GW blitzkrieg tactics. Regardless of the thinking behind it cyber warfare is deeply entrenched in the use of the communications systems and in any spectrum of conflict it would seem to be lurking about in the command and control system.
    Which means that Cyber warfare is not much different from EW. Maybe it is a subset of EW or "Spectrum Denial." I have no problem with Cyber as long as militaries concentrate on disrupting militarily relevant means and the GCHQ/NSA go after the other stuff. Forming a "Cyber Corps" is just dumb.

    As a separate entity of conflict cyber warfare could be considered to be disruption (severing and changing communications), destruction (wholesale slaughter of bits and bytes), and even kinetic (opening the flood gates on dams, blowing up generators remotely, causing weapons systems to cook off while in storage). But, I recently read that as an academic I likely don't have much to add to this discussion of practitioners.
    ...and what I said before. If Cyber degrades combat power I am all for it, the same way as I am all for EW, which is actually not as well exploited as it should be.

    If someone can sensibly differentiate between "Cyber" and "EW" I'm all ears.

    With that I'm off to have the elbow patches repaired on my sport jacket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    Which means that Cyber warfare is not much different from EW. Maybe it is a subset of EW or "Spectrum Denial." I have no problem with Cyber as long as militaries concentrate on disrupting militarily relevant means and the GCHQ/NSA go after the other stuff. Forming a "Cyber Corps" is just dumb.



    ...and what I said before. If Cyber degrades combat power I am all for it, the same way as I am all for EW, which is actually not as well exploited as it should be.

    If someone can sensibly differentiate between "Cyber" and "EW" I'm all ears.
    JP1-02 defines EW thus:
    electronic warfare — Military action involving the use of electromagnetic and directed energy to control the electromagnetic spectrum or to attack the enemy.
    Cyberwar is the larger use of EW and other means to attack the enemy's cyber capabilities while defending one's own. For example, were I to put sugar in the gas tank of your generator so that it quits and you can no longer run your computer network, that would be a form of cyberwar. It would not be EW. Were I to use my Jedi light saber (aka laser/directed energy) to cut the cables that connect your generator to the distribution panel so you can no longer run your computer network, that would be a form of cyberwar that happens to also be EW.

    By the way, based on the JP definition. I guess that if an everyday enemy rifleman happened to stumble through your high powered jamming signal and get cooked (sorta like what happens to meat in your microwave), he would be an EW casualty, but not a cyber casualty.
    Last edited by wm; 01-14-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
    For example, were I to put sugar in the gas tank of your generator so that it quits and you can no longer run your computer network, that would be a form of cyberwar.
    So if I used a 454kg LGB to kill the computers would that be "cyberwar" or just an airstrike?

    This is what worries me about people trying to come up with new terms to explain stuff we don't actually need to explain. Computers and networks are primarily used for command and control. Attacking the technology associated with that function is primarily an area of EW.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default Wednesday must be a bad hair day

    But I enjoy the sarcasm and otherwise hate being behind a computer

    I for one have troubles with the mere use of "cyber" other than in a good film with Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Wilf's comments seem to be some of the best examples in simple, easy to use terms (for a guy like me that must perform without the benefit of comms other than our wireless robot and X-ray).

    IMO cyber warfare much like EW contributes to the success of IO. Cyber warefare possesses both offensive and defensive tactics, and when employed correctly can not only disrupt, but also exploit your enemy.

    DDoS is far too simplistic a term for what most continue to assume occurred in Estonia. Georgia's use of/reliance on computers (that is if you happen to own a computer and live within 5 kilometers from the city center where one might connect) is not even remotely similar. In any case, the so-called non-state actors were not waging war, they were employing cyber in support of their ongoing operations.

    It's all relative and darn simple for a minion like me. To employ such cyber operations in say Africa would be a true waste of time (similar to shutting off the electricity in a country that barely has 4 hours of electricity per day). Shut the power off in say West Bend for 8 hours (intentionally) and you'll have a full scale riot on your hands (assuming you don't have a 5KW in your back yard).
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    Default Cyber warfare; Expansion of 4th or the emergence of 5th generation warfare?

    This is the second short response for a class I am taking. Enjoy!


    On April 21st, the Defense Department announced that spies hacked into the $300 billion F-35 Joint Strike Fighter project. Full details of the cyber attack may never become available to the public, but the Department of Defense quickly revealed that the amounts of F-35 data dowloaded were "sizable", and speculation places the origin of the attack in China. This cyber attack follows a chain of escalating security breaches, including Air Force air-traffic control, and the U.S. electric grid (on April 4). In the last six months, the Pentagon spent $100 million repairing damage caused by network breaches (WSJ.com).

    But what exactly is 5th generation warfare? According to Thomas Hammes, the U.S. currently fighting the 4th generation of warfare—underscored by a transition from “maneuver warfare” (third generation) to targeting multiple networks (political, economic, social, and military) and making strategic goals “unachievable or too costly for the perceived benefit” (Hammes, 2006). Fourth generation warfare does not focus on the “military victory” of the first three generations, but destruction of the political will to wage war. It is from this mindset we see the new prominence of non-conventional warfare and tactics, such as violent insurgencies and transnational terrorism. This definition begs the question: “is cyber warfare a form of non-conventional warfare”

    The general theme between generations of warfare is the gradual expansion of the battlefield at the expense of restrictions--for example, the dynamics of forth generation warfare include a “social” dimension previously ignored by third generation. If we look to expand the scope today’s wars, we must move beyond “physical warfare”. Thus a fifth generation may be defined by kinetic (conventional and unconventional warfare) and non-kinetic attacks on political, economic, social, and military networks in order to make strategic objectives unachievable or too costly for the perceived benefit. I believe that cyber warfare pushes the boundaries forward in such a way that makes fifth generation an inevitable reality. In spite of the addition of “non-kinetic” tactics such as cyber warfare, physical attacks will remain just as relevant as they are today—a few well-placed, heavy chains or IEDs on a high voltage transmission line can bring down the U.S. power grid just as cheaply and effectively as a hacker.

    The recent surge of high-profile cyber attacks on the United States serve as a litmus test for fifth generation warfare. Congress recognizes the existence (though not necessarily the extent) of a threat, and allocated $17 billion to buffering government network security. American utility providers are also taking steps to secure technologically dependent systems. However, the symbolic nature cyber attack on the F-35 project should not be overlooked—tomorrow’s wars will depend on $300 computers as much (or more) than a multibillion dollar super jet.

    Sources:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401.html

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123914805204099085.html

    Hammes, Colonel Thomas X., and Usmc. The Sling and the Stone: On War in the 21st Century. Zenith Press, 2006.

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Consider whether a cyber incident is an attack, war, or something else. Not all violence is war. Some is crime, some is football. Not all cyber incidents are warfare. Was the F35 incident espionage? Was it simply trespass? Motive can be a determining factor.

    Cyber is as old as the military. Though cyber was coined by Norbert Wiener in "Cyberneticss: or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine", and cyber space was coined by William Gibson in "Neuromancer" the actual act of command and control through various means reaches back to the beginning of time.

    So, and this is key, is cyber warfare actually just a continuation of war (simple) and destruction of an enemies command and control?

    How does stealing or infiltrating the F35 project rise to that test?
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    Default Information Warfare is an adjunct, not warfare in itself

    The way I see it, information warfare, specifically the targeting and attack of the enemy's command and industrial infrastructure is an adjunct to other, more "conventional" forms of warfare, not a form of warfare in itself. As Selil put it, armies have been targeting others' infrastructure since the dawn of warfare.

    As I see it, cyberwar isn't a form of warfare per se, it is a tactic that is used as part of a wider strategy. Its just like bombing the enemy's roads or power lines to slow his movements and reduce the effectiveness of his fighting forces.

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quanticle View Post
    The way I see it, information warfare, specifically the targeting and attack of the enemy's command and industrial infrastructure is an adjunct to other, more "conventional" forms of warfare, not a form of warfare in itself. As Selil put it, armies have been targeting others' infrastructure since the dawn of warfare.

    As I see it, cyberwar isn't a form of warfare per se, it is a tactic that is used as part of a wider strategy. Its just like bombing the enemy's roads or power lines to slow his movements and reduce the effectiveness of his fighting forces.

    There is another level of cyber warfare that exists, where bits become weaponized but that is for other threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quanticle View Post
    As I see it, cyberwar isn't a form of warfare per se, it is a tactic that is used as part of a wider strategy. Its just like bombing the enemy's roads or power lines to slow his movements and reduce the effectiveness of his fighting forces.
    Exactly. The idea of 5GW does not imply a shift to "cyber warfare" in its purest sense, but an additional tactic and broadened "battleground" in warfare. Over the last few years, the number of network attacks has grown exponentially. It is a dramatic change from bombing a road or power line("kinetic") versus taking down computer support systems electronically ("non-kinetic"). Both can knock out a power grid, but kinetic is much more costly and invasive (to destroy and/or rebuild) than non-kinetic. At the same time, one does not make the other irrelevant in 5GW warfare.

    Cyber warfare is interesting in that it is not limited to targeting military operations. Sure, you can take down radar systems and military communications (leaving your enemy blind and deaf) and achieve a tactical victory on the battlefield. On the other hand, you can shut off televisions, phone lines, power plants, sewage plants, etc. Maybe the population's leverage (after living in their own crap without electricity for a few weeks) is enough to force a government to "surrender" before a shot is even fired. It would not be any different than the objectives of an embargo.

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