Ukraine: non-military aspects (August 2014-December 2015)

[kaur]

Mirhond, my friend, who does not to be my friend, I can tell you what is not normal to me. Not normal is any story that comes from Kremlin spin doctor's kitchen. Present day Donbass is cooked there. At one moment they had even stratetegic planning center behind GUM deparment store manned with former Jedinaja Rossija guys. That seems to be closed now.

About song. That song is linked to GRU captain's feelings about war, where Russians are fighting Russians.

Reading forecasts about sanctions, it seems your Golden age is again puched further away. Why? There seems to be dejavu. You in Moscow feel this later than people in small cities.

Почему друзья СССР не помешали угробить державу

Какую пользу принесла Советскому Союзу поддержка подобных персонажей — вопрос риторический. В 1985 году тот самый арабский мир, на который советчики-комитетчики делали основную ставку, обанкротил советскую власть, отпустив нефтяные цены в свободное падение. Коллапс нефтяных цен (с $35 за баррель в 1980 до $7 к 1986) неплохо помог экономикам крупных импортёров нефти — США, Западной Европы, Японии — но для сырьевой советской экономики это был полный и окончательный крах. Которого советчики-комитетчики не умели предвидеть в 1980-е, и даже в 1991 году, обсуждая причины развала советской империи, Шебаршин с коллегами по-прежнему ищет объяснений в происках иностранной агентуры и предательстве высшего партийного руководства. Прочесть «Гибель империи» Гайдара он так до самой смерти и не догадался.

http://dolboeb.livejournal.com/2818117.html

[kaur]

About normal. Is this normal?

Ideologically, no other domestic justifications exist for Putin’s system of domination. Another dimension of the same collective myth includes the hugely important theme of “Russia’s rebirth as a great power.” The reproduction of authoritarian institutions goes hand-in- hand with the imitation of a Soviet grand-imperial style: it requires repeated confirmation that present-day Russia still holds the geopo- litical positions that the USSR used to enjoy—hence, the excessive military expenditures (in the absence of substantial modernization or reform of the military); pompous, tsarist-style ceremonies in the Kremlin; grand, stately receptions in palaces; and huge expenses on the Sochi Olympics and various summits. The ubiquitous pro- paganda keeps pounding in the heads of the “masses” that Putin alone is to thank for Russia’s having regained its influence around the world and gained respect in international affairs. Political ads end- lessly play various versions of the same tune, one more compatible with North Korea than a country that deems itself European. The global community has recognized Putin as a highly influential, if not the most influential, and successful leader in the modern world.

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploa...ia.pdf#page=27

Prospects. Is this normal?

Regime. The regime attempts to make up for the sterilization of politics—including suppression of political competition, censorship, electoral fraud, use of administrative leverage, and blackmail—with fake traditionalism, the promotion of Russia’s “special path,” and other ideological surrogates. At the same time, the regime’s policy toward opposition is built around a simple thesis that any politics and politicians are naturally immoral and are fighting for power only for the sake of power. The regime teaches, “They are as unprincipled as we are, but we are ‘ours’ and they are ‘foreign.’” Thus, the regime leads the general public to believe there is no alternative to the rul- ing elite. Today, this is the key argument in favor of preserving the authoritarian regime.

This is the lens through you must watch Donbass.

[mirhond]

1. Mirhond, my friend, who does not to be my friend, I can tell you what is not normal to me. Not normal is any story that comes from Kremlin spin doctor's kitchen. Present day Donbass is cooked there.

2. About normal. Is this normal?
Quote: Ideologically, no other domestic justifications exist for Putin’s system of domination.

3. About song. That song is linked to GRU captain's feelings about war, where Russians are fighting Russians.

1. This is not an answer to my question, but this is a strong evidence that you just misuse term "normal" and call "not normal" any piece of reality you don't like. You can't make any cogent argument from moral judgements and warm feeling of moral superiority, do you realise ut?

2. Confirmation bias at it's best. Do you realise that another load of a moral judgements and evangelical sentiments from authors you like does not make a reasonable argument?

3. Barnum Effect at it's best. Do not hesitate to listen to other Grebenshikov songs - you'll find entire Universe of hidden meanings and misteries wrapped into secrets and covered by enigmas

ps. I gave you a hint how to find useful information about Donbass politics (read rebels media, in case you forgot) - would you please spent at least one hour of your precious time and read something from them? Don't be afraid - reading does not necessarily turns you into Cossack.

For example 1968:

Esteemed Leonid Ilich,

Conscious of the full responsibility for our decision, we appeal to you with the following statement.

Would you please explain what it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects ?

[kaur]

mirhond, your hint to read rebel media is in fact worthless. The sole reason is that most of it is sponsored, edited, guided by Kremlin PR guys. Next suggest me to watch Kisseljov, Solovjov etc talking shows Can you tell me were Misha Leontjev has vanished? Rosneft is taking all his time?

[mirhond]

mirhond, your hint to read rebel media is in fact worthless. The sole reason is that most of it is sponsored, edited, guided by Kremlin PR guys. Next suggest me to watch Kisseljov, Solovjov etc talking shows Can you tell me were Misha Leontjev has vanished? Rosneft is taking all his time?

So, when you lost your keys, you search for them under the lantern, because its easier? Gosh, our bureaucracy needs such employees, completely devoided of imagination and unquestionably loyal to official media voice-pipe. But you said most of it - so, what fundamental law prohibits you from studying this "unsponsored" part?

[OUTLAW 09]

So, when you lost your keys, you search for them under the lantern, because its easier? Gosh, our bureaucracy needs such employees, completely devoided of imagination and unquestionably loyal to official media voice-pipe. But you said most of it - so, what fundamental law prohibits you from studying this "unsponsored" part?

remember comrade mirhond---Russian propaganda has 4Ds--dismiss, distract, distort, dismay designed to create the 2Ds --distrust and doubt.

be sure to provide something that does not contain these 6Ds---

better yet find something that is not a Russian "narrative" is what IMO kaur is trying to get you to understand.

[mirhond]

US Congress blocks aid to Azov Sturmabteilung:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-con...kraine/5455422


Yet, on June 10, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bipartisan amendment to the Defense Appropriations Act – from Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Michigan, and Ted Yoho, R-Florida – that would block U.S. training of the Azov battalion and would prevent transfer of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to fighters in Iraq and Ukraine.

“I am grateful that the House of Representatives unanimously passed my amendments last night to ensure that our military does not train members of the repulsive neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, along with my measures to keep the dangerous and easily trafficked MANPADs out of these unstable regions,” said Conyers on Thursday.

[OUTLAW 09]

US Congress blocks aid to Azov Sturmabteilung:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-con...kraine/5455422


Yet, on June 10, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bipartisan amendment to the Defense Appropriations Act – from Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Michigan, and Ted Yoho, R-Florida – that would block U.S. training of the Azov battalion and would prevent transfer of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to fighters in Iraq and Ukraine.

“I am grateful that the House of Representatives unanimously passed my amendments last night to ensure that our military does not train members of the repulsive neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, along with my measures to keep the dangerous and easily trafficked MANPADs out of these unstable regions,” said Conyers on Thursday.

see comrade mirhond--IF you had been tracking on the Ukraine military side of this you would have been totally aware of this two days ago.

first of all I can document for you over eight different Russian Nazi groups fighting today in Donbas and I can even have their VK videos and photos of their Nazi ceremonies if you would like.

BUT hey you would never even admit that there are even Russian Nazi's.

THERE has been some serious questions raised by who exactly paid this Congressman to enter this amendment into the HR funding bill--as he never even checked with the Ukrainian government and took the word of two news media outlets one of which was using a proRussian slanted article and this is the one the Congressman "quoted" he had in fact read.

Propaganda all the way is what he was fed--and now social media is actually questioning just who "paid him off".

[OUTLAW 09]

see comrade mirhond--IF you had been tracking on the Ukraine military side of this you would have been totally aware of this two days ago.

first of all I can document for you over eight different Russian Nazi groups fighting today in Donbas and I can even have their VK videos and photos of their Nazi ceremonies if you would like.

here is one for you:

BUT hey you would never even admit that there are even Russian Nazi's.

THERE has been some serious questions raised by who exactly paid this Congressman to enter this amendment into the HR funding bill--as he never even checked with the Ukrainian government and took the word of two news media outlets one of which was using a proRussian slanted article and this is the one the Congressman "quoted" he had in fact read.

Propaganda all the way is what he was fed--and now social media is actually questioning just who "paid him off".

here is the VK link----

https://vk.com/id205292010

[mirhond]

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/353...kamy-fashystov

Ukrinian Ministry of Justice refused to register UNA-UNSO Nazi-wannabe party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...s_Self-Defence

At least some sanity among all this madness:

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/w...1?pf3511=55883

Проект Закону про заборону використання історичної назви території України та похідних від неї слів в якості назви або синоніму Російської Федерації, використання такої назви для позначення сучасної території Російської Федерації чи будь-якої її частини

Draft Law on forbidding term "Russian Federation" in Ukraine.

Назва «Русь» та похідна від неї «Росія» є загальновизнаною назвою нинішньої України. Територія нинішньої Російської Федерації ніколи, до нового часу, не називалася іноземними джерелами та місцевими мешканцями ані «Руссю», ані «Росією». ...
Етнонім «Русь» чи «Росія», що використовувався для означення кордонів України, до незаконного перейменування Московського царства у «Ро́сію», також зберігається і до середини XVIII століття.

translation: Terms "Rus" and "Russia" have nothing to do with modern territory of Russia, morower they have never been applied to Russia by foreign sources. ... terms "Rus" or "Russia" were illegally stolen by Principality of Moscowia in 18th sent.

Oh, that is so-o-o scientific.

[mirhond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&v=urcbpfRi3j8

Right Sector started gunfight in Mukachevo, town near Ukr.-Hungary border.

http://obozrevatel.com/crime/31928-v...vala-gorod.htm

Media says Sturmabteilung seized a sports facility that belongs to a local strongmam.

Some military trucks and BTRs spotted, also. Could possibly be military trying to pacify Right Sector.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&v=U84V-nNLwRc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9ginluC0aY
Right Sector blocks municipal administration in L'vov, W. Ukraine. Looks like Sturmabteilung is trying to improve their foothold in the W. Ukraine while having their asses kicked by "silovikian orkz" in Kiev and East.

[mirhond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=879&v=ZbMZLEdjO30

Lengthy and mostly tedious Ukrainian political talkshow - but one phrase from Right sector militant caught my ear:
12:30 "Army is a source of a political elites in the prosperous states. Our army must be the same" Isn't this pretty? Sturmabteilung muscle-man pretends to be a ruling class soon. Sancta simplicitas!

[OUTLAW 09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=879&v=ZbMZLEdjO30

Lengthy and mostly tedious Ukrainian political talkshow - but one phrase from Right sector militant caught my ear:
12:30 "Army is a source of a political elites in the prosperous states. Our army must be the same" Isn't this pretty? Sturmabteilung muscle-man pretends to be a ruling class soon. Sancta simplicitas!

you did no fully understand the English sentence otherwise you would not be making the comment you made---nice translation you used that was made for you but you blew the meaning of the sentence--reread it slowly

AND Russia political elites do not come out of the military, FSB or GRU????

come on mirhond get real

[mirhond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuntSMVfwSQ

2:000:50 live video - Right Sector+Maidan. In the nutshell: Yarosh calls for comlete change of the political elite and proclaims creation of country-wide RS posts for referendum, ends with casual "Ukraine uber alles".
It's unclear how many people attend, but obviously the numbers are manyfold less than it was when Maidan was a hot plate.

[mirhond]

Ukrainian Index Librorum Prohibitorum: 38 Russian books - 5 are action, 12 are crackpot political speculations (their authors are known weirdos), several looks like analitics (I have no idea what are they in reality) and only the last one is real stuff.

http://obozrevatel.com/politics/2195...jskih-knig.htm

Федор Березин "Украинский фронт. Красные звезды над Майданом".
Федор Березин "Война 2010. Украинский фронт" Москва: Яуза, Эксмо, 2009,
Георгий Савицкий "Поле боя-Украина. Сломанный трезубец".
Глеб Бобров "Украина в огне".
Михаил Белозеров "Украинский гамбит. Война 2015".
Александр Север "Русско-украинские войны", Яуза-Пресс, 2009.
Александр Дугин "Украина. Моя война. Геополитический дневник". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "Битва за Россию".ISBN978-5-227-05690-0; 2015.
Александр Дугин "Евразийский реванш России". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "Битва за Россию". ISBN978-5-4438-0855-0; 2014.
Валерий Коровин "Конец проекта "Украина". Издательство "Питер".ISBN978-5-496-01448-9; 2015.
. Николай Стариков "Украина. Хаос и революция- оружие доллара". Издательство "Питер". ISBN978-5-496-01300-0; 2014.
Николай Стариков, Дмитрий Беляев "Россия. Крым. История". Издательство "Питер".ISBN978-5-496-01363-5; 2015.
Александр Север "Бандера и бандеровщина". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "Титаны и тираны".ISBN978-5-4438-0744-7; 2014.
Андрей Фурсов. "Холодный восточный ветер русской весны". Издательство " Книжный мир". Серия "Игры мировых элит".ISBN978-5-8041-0707-0; 2014.
Эдуард Лимонов "Киев капут". Издательство "Центрполиграф". ISBN978-5-227-05727-3; 2015.
Сергей Доренко "Донбасс - дымовая завеса Путина?". Составитель О.Селин. Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия: "Политические тайны ХХІ века, Проект Путин". ISBN978-5-4438-0922-5; 2014.
Сергей Глазьев "Украинская катастрофа. От американской агрессии к мировой войне?". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба". ISBN978-5-8041-0727-8; 2015.
Наталия Нарочницкая "Сосредоточение России. Битва за русский мир". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба". ISBN978-5-8041-0726-1; 2015.
Александр Нагорный, Владимир Винников "Глобальный треугольник. Россия-США-Китай. От разрушения СССР до Евромайдана. Хроники будущего". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба". ISBN978-5-8041-0729-2; 2015.
Составитель Елена Семенова. Авторы: Игорь Михеев, Вениамин Башлачев, Людмила Фионова, А. Самарин, Юрий Лисовский, Е. Семенова, А. Жучковский, Михаил назаров, елена Чудинова, Д. Соколов " Евромайдан и русская весна. История, факты, аналитика". Антология. Серия: библиотека журнала "Голос Эпохи". Издательство "Книжный мир". Серия "Коллекция Изборского клуба".ISBN978-5-9905732-1-5; 2014.
Марина Ахметова "Уроки украинского. От Майдана до Востока". Издательство АСТ. ISBN978-5-9905732-1-5; 2014.
Лев Вершинин "Евромайдан. Кто уничтожил Украину?". Издательство "Алгоритм". Серия "политический компромат".ISBN978-5-4438-0887-1; 2014.
Юрий Мухин " Как натравить Украину на Россию". Миф о "Сталинском Голодоморе". Издательство "Яуза-каталог". Серия "Информационная война". Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Сверхчеловек говорит по-русски".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Код Путина".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Независимая Украина: крах проекта". Издательство АСТ, 2010.
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Вперед в СССР-2".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Геноцид русского народа".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Цунами 2010-х годов".
Максим Калашников, Сергей Бунтовский "Сверхчеловек говорит по-русски".
Сергей Бунтовский "Украина от Адама до Януковича. Очерки истории". Издательство "Донбасс". Серия: Библиотека Донбасской Руси. 2014.
Смирнов А.С. "Проект Новороссия. История русской окраины". Издательство "Алгоритм". ISBN978-5-4438-1017-1; 2015.
Родин С.С. "Поводыри украинского сепаратизма. Конспирология "самостийничества". Издательство Русского Имперского Движения (СПб.).ISBN978-5-8041-0332-4. 2014.
Кочетков А. "Кровавые преступления бандеровской хунты". Издательство: "Книжный мир". Серия: Библиотека Антимайдана.ISBN978-5-0759-9.
Козлов А.В. "Вся правда об Украинской повстанческой армии (УПА)". Издательство "Вече". Серия: Вся правда о войне.ISBN978-5-4444-1747-8;2014.
Катасонов В.Ю. "Украина: Экономика смуты, или Деньги на крови". Издательство "Книжный мир".ISBN978-5-8041-0720-9;2014.
Родин С.С. "Отрекаясь от русского имени. Украинская химера: Историческое расследование. Происхождение, подлинная история и реальное настоящее"Украины" и ""украинцев". Издательство "Крымский мост-9Д Форум". Серия: Великое противостояние.ISBN5-89747-0634;2006.
Родин С.С. "Украинцы". Издательство: Русского Имперского Движения(СПб.). ISBN5-87774-063-4;2010.
Козлов Ю.К. "Бандеризация Украины-главная угроза для России". Издательство "Яуза-пресс". Серия: Угрозы России. ISBN978-5-903339-77-8; 2008.
Дюков А.Р. "Массовые нарушения прав человека в ходе гражданского противостояния на Украине, 2013-2014 гг.: Годовой отчет IGCP". Издательство: Издательский центр фонда "историческая память".ISBN978-5-9990-0036-1; 2015.

[kaur]

mirhond, my supplier of interesting stuff, in what sense the last one is real stuff?

[mirhond]

mirhond, my supplier of interesting stuff, in what sense the last one is real stuff?

In any practical sence, If you are familiar with this concept.

[kaur]

mirhond, yesterday after approaching your suggestion critically and doing the Google search of authors for 10 minutes, I'm just wondering why you picked out from the list report which co-author is SVR officer. This is classical active measures product you are suggesting. Thanks for opening the new horizons and adding new case to the list of Russian propaganda tricks.

http://igcp.eu/sites/default/files/m...lreportrus.pdf

Go to Google and write there the surname of third author beginning with Ermol and SVR. Both in Russian. If you write both names in English, also additional info comes out from Google Books. I didn't have time to Google other authors. Any comments? Are you working with those guys

mirhond, your example shows nothing has changed in Russian system. Just some new names like Russia Today have appeared.

http://jmw.typepad.com/propaganda_co..._structure.pdf

[mirhond]

Go to Google and write there the surname of third author beginning with Ermol and SVR. Both in Russian. If you write both names in English, also additional info comes out from Google Books. I didn't have time to Google other authors. Any comments? Are you working with those guys

http://jmw.typepad.com/propaganda_co..._structure.pdf

D. Y. Ermolaev_SVR +Google =

In Ukraine detained officers of SVR and GRU of Russia, - Parubiy
news.pn/en/politics/101633 - Cached

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Юбилей - drive.net
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Супер цена :: Harvoni (ledipasvir и sofosbuvir
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The second trial showed 99 percent of such participants with and without cirrhosis achieved SVR after 12 weeks. And in the third trial, which examined Harvonis ...
How do police track cell phones using imei - The Lemon Drop Team
thelemondropteam.com/17527-how-do-police-track-cell-phones-using-imei/ - Cached
Svr asked the private data to artyom ermolaev adds. Icon, said furjanic hide from operating. Many people put out on. Chiefs insist it will stop binmen having to ...
Brilliant NOZHAN - Pinterest
https://in.pinterest.com/nozhanfrouzande/brilliant/
Stormwater planters on Maynard green street, Seattle by SvR Design Co. ... Ash Rivers, Andrew Ermolaev, Iceland, Beauty Rivers, Inspiration, Nature, Aerial ...

Come on, you have to understand that "my" Google is a special Google for KGB agents - it does not whistle. May be your democratic Google gives you completely different search results

Anyway, even If this "Ermolaev" guy is a SVR agent or whatever, your argument is still Ad Hominem Fallacy.

[OUTLAW 09]

Ukrainian Index Librorum Prohibitorum: 38 Russian books - 5 are action, 12 are crackpot political speculations (their authors are known weirdos), several looks like analitics (I have no idea what are they in reality) and only the last one is real stuff.

http://obozrevatel.com/politics/2195...jskih-knig.htm

What a waste of time and commenter space----