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Old 01-25-2016   #1
mwe12
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Default Syria in 2016: an exchange on what to do

Moderator's Note

(From Post 18 29th January) I have created this new thread to enable the exchange between Outlaw09 and mwe12 to continue - separate from the main Syria thread.

Both are Americans, one inside the Beltway and the other in Berlin. That does not exclude others from the exchange, as Crowbat too has added a post.(Ends)


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Biden calls PKK a terrorist group. Meanwhile, U.S. arms YPG, which is just PKK on the other side of the border
The Kurds hire great lobbyists in DC. They have done a much better job to hide the stink from Western readers, than say the Muslim Brotherhood has.

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Not exactly sure how much longer the KSA, Turkey and Pakistan will remain quiet over the unending videos coming out ot the ME depiciting Shia militia torturing, killing and otherwsie committing war crimes on the Sunni populations in both Iraq and Syria.......
The Saudis fund people to lop off heads and put civilians in cages, they like to cluster bomb weddings, and couldn't beat a drum. Pakistan, which has never won a war, isn't much better and can't afford to get bogged down away from the LOC, and Turkey has a PKK problem.

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Last time I checked JaN has never uttered a single threat against the US nor carried out any attack agains the West besides in some aspects Russia is a far greater existential threat to the US than JaN will ever be.......
JAN, a terrorist group, is AQ's local franchise; if someone from the US tried to join it they would end up in a federal prison. Franchise of the same outfit which murdered three thousand Americans one morning. Hell if an American tried to join much of the anti-Assad coalition they would get snatched off an airplane and put into the pavement so quick their head would spin. It's an insult to the victims of 9/11 that we aren't drone striking them on a daily basis.

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There is the old IR concept that if one country knows exactly what is ongoing in another ie the ongoing genocide in Syria and says and or does nothing then they are as complicit as those that carry out the genocide.
Imaginary concept, which would blame Costa Rica and Cambodia for not sending troops. And this isn't a genocide.

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Somehow US foreign policy has forgotten Nuremburg........But hey that is ancient history to the current Obama NSC.....
This isn't the Holocaust.

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Interesting response today by the anti Assad front HNC....notice the emphasis is on fulfil what you signed off on at the UN in order for us the NHC to judge your full faith in negotiations....notice it is being sold in the West as "obstacles" and "preconditions" and the HNC says..."no we just want you to implement what you have passed in the UNSC so we do not have to re-negotiate for the same things from Assad and Putin" which is what you are basically telling us to do....
Those are preconditions in the real world.

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Obama desperately trying to impose a facade resolution to Syrian conflict before his term ends for another chapter to write in his biography
A chapter few of his supporters will care about anyways. There is no public support to go ride to the rescue of Islamist groups in Syria/the handful of secular pro-democracy people. Come to the US and ask around, or lobby your home country to ride in to the rescue.
===
From the analyst who was clearly deluded....
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This is not to say that we should not compromise in order to put an end to conflict and human suffering (especially in Syria), but we must structure our compromises so that they contain the path to, or at least, the possibility for future exercise of democratic political and territorial sovereignty.
Democracies like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Qatar... errr.... Egypt...

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Specifically, he seeks to inaugurate a new international order that permits human rights abuses by despotic leaders and invasion, occupation and political subversion of sovereign state
Wait, what? Is this where someone rattles of a list of Western nations doing the same when it suited them.

Must be nice to be in a fantasy world; though if that is his best shot it is a shame he cashed a tax payer funded cheque for so long.

=================================
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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...131356951.html
He said all parties would be involved in ceasefire efforts, other than the two groups designated as "terrorists" by the UN.

"The condition is that it should be a real ceasefire and not just local," De Mistura said.

"Suspension of fighting regarding ISIL and al-Nusra is not on the table. However [there are] plenty of other suspensions of fighting that can take place."

Khaled Khoja, the President of the Syrian National Coalition, said in a press release that they are ready for the talks despite the delay.

......
Mohamed Alloush, the leader of the Jaysh al-Islam group, which has been chosen as part of the opposition list, told Al Jazeera there were conditions yet to be applied before any talks could take place.

"There is pressure on us to give up the natural and legitimate rights of the Syrian people. These pressures are represented in pushing our delegation to head to the talks without any clear agenda, plus giving up the goodwill measures mainly addressing the humanitarian situation which has nothing to do with politics.

"Therefore, we cannot tell our people who delegated us how we gave up their rights and headed to Geneva without stopping the air raids, lifting the siege, releasing the prisoners, or sending aid."
http://syriadirect.org/news/ahrar-nu...es-in-latakia/
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A local dispute between two Victory Army factions Sunday that led to a gun battle is drawing condemnation from both leaderships and citizen journalists for distracting from fighting a rapid regime advance in Latakia province.

Neither Ahrar a-Sham nor Jabhat a-Nusra have commented on the underlying reasons behind Sunday's firefight in the town of Salqin, in northern Idlib province, when Nusra fighters captured an Ahrar “services office.”

The fighting caused one unidentified casualty, reported pro-opposition All4Syria on Sunday.

The groups reportedly reconciled after the incident, with Ahrar spokesman Abu Yazid Teftenaz circulating a copy of the settlement on Twitter. Teftenaz thanked the intervention of unnamed “rational people” for resolving the dispute.

The two factions are the strongest in the Victory Army, formed in early 2015 from a coalition of Islamist rebel groups who managed to capture all of Idlib province that year.

Meanwhile, the Syrian army and its allies are making rapid progress in the northern Latakia countryside, where they captured the village of Rabia Sunday. Rabia is the last rebel stronghold of importance in the province. Its capture will help prevent the southward movement of opposition fighters who periodically fire missiles on Latakia city and other regime-held areas along the coast, reported pan-Arab al-Hayat Monday.

“Their [Jabhat a-Nusra's] banners are in the trash in Selma and Rabia, and they're busy trying to expand their patch of emirate in Idlib,” wrote Mujahid a-Shami, alias of a citizen journalist who focuses on opposition Islamist brigades.

Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-29-2016 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Add note
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Old 01-26-2016   #2
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BTW, mwe12, I find it outright ironic you're complaining about all the 'Islamist groups in Syria', and in next sentence cite al-Jazeera, which in turn is citing the leader of the Islamic Front - an Islamist group in control of the first place in Syria (insurgent-held Eastern Ghouta) where free elections were held in nearly 70 years...

(BTW, the IF lost badly during these elections, and a group of civilian technocrats is now in power in the Eastern Ghouta, but then... sigh...well, why should anybody care about this: 'they're all Islamists and terrorists'...)
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Old 01-26-2016   #3
mwe12
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BTW, mwe12, I find it outright ironic you're complaining about all the 'Islamist groups in Syria', and in next sentence cite al-Jazeera, which in turn is citing the leader of the Islamic Front - an Islamist group in control of the first place in Syria (insurgent-held Eastern Ghouta) where free elections were held in nearly 70 years...
Citing Qatar state TV, to get info out of the horses mouth, is no more an endorsement of that vile terrorist supporting regime, than citing Sputnik or RT is of harboring a man-crush towards bare-chested Russian manlets. Single handledly doubled their clicks based on the fall of AJA.

If an American tried to join the IF they would also end up a federal prisoner.

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...yup, and that's so precisely because people are so '100% sure' about that illusion that all these are 'Islamist groups' and there is 'only a handful of secular pro-democracy people'...
Well my friend that is the reality of it. There is minimal public support (and no public campaign) to help these guys, despite years of an aggressive media campaign and the MSM carrying water for them, including the use of the term "moderate." Really a remarkable story as to between horrible beliefs, massacres, beheadings, civilians in cages, suicide bombers, and AQ, these guys (and their GCC/Turkish supporters) basically discredited themselves.

They would have been good to have learned from the PKK as to how to hide the smell and at least pretend.
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on Jan 25, 2016 4:14pm EST
Related: World
Attack targeting Ahrar al-Sham group in Syria kills 23, monitor says
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKCN0V31FV

A suicide bomber driving a fuel truck killed at least 23 people on Monday when he blew himself up at a checkpoint run by the Islamist group Ahrar al-Sham in Syria's northern city of Aleppo, a monitoring group said.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said that four of the group's commanders, other members of the group and four civilians are believed to be among those killed.

It said that the attack in the city's Sukari neighbourhood destroyed three nearby buildings and wounded dozens of people. More were believed to be buried under rubble. Ahrar al-Sham officials were not immediately available for comment.

In addition, a Russian air strike killed 12 people, including a local commander of the group, in the northwestern province of Idlib, the monitoring group said. It was not immediately clear where the warplane struck. The Observatory said it targeted the commander's house, but rebel sources said it struck an office of the group.

(Reporting by Mariam Karouny; Editing by Larry King)
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Old 01-26-2016   #4
OUTLAW 09
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Originally Posted by mwe12 View Post
Citing Qatar state TV, to get info out of the horses mouth, is no more an endorsement of that vile terrorist supporting regime, than citing Sputnik or RT is of harboring a man-crush towards bare-chested Russian manlets. Single handledly doubled their clicks based on the fall of AJA.

If an American tried to join the IF they would also end up a federal prisoner.



Well my friend that is the reality of it. There is minimal public support (and no public campaign) to help these guys, despite years of an aggressive media campaign and the MSM carrying water for them, including the use of the term "moderate." Really a remarkable story as to between horrible beliefs, massacres, beheadings, civilians in cages, suicide bombers, and AQ, these guys (and their GCC/Turkish supporters) basically discredited themselves.

They would have been good to have learned from the PKK as to how to hide the smell and at least pretend.
mwe12.....I had posted the comment that JaN has never attacked the US anywhere globally and while they often do crazy internal Syrian things politically and fighting wise that sometimes causes one to shake their heads they are basically Syrian to their roots and take their fighters mainly from inside Syria.....AND yes they have even had internal and open debates about their oath of allegiance to AQ...which is unusual for a so called "terrorist" grouping in the realm of AQ. So again show me any article, or statement coming from JaN issued as a direct threat to the US such as does AQ and or IS???

Again another contradiction to the so called image of an AQ terrorist grouping.

JN convoy with more than 120 armed vehicles just arrived north #Aleppo cs to fight #SAA #isis & #pkk
#Syria JAN 26


Think about this...what if the anti Assad forces had been able to turn their full attention to IS...instead they are fighting the Assad Shia mercenary army and dodging Russian air strikes....AND fighting at the same time ongoing battles with IS and pushes them often back in heavy fighting ALL the while the RuAF striking is them in these fights...basically the RuAF has been protecting IS with their air strikes against the anti Assad forces...YET we hear nothing about that in the entire US MSM do we?????

Not less than 900 #SAA & it's militias mercenaries exterminated & 1600 wounded in the last 3 months by Rebels at #Latakia battles #Syria

HERE is the interesting point that I have been making for awhile...ALL we hear out of the US is" the Syrians must fight IS", or we "need more boots on the ground to fight IS", OR "we need SOF units from the Sunni Front States on the ground to fight IS"...on and on.

BUT has the US even thought about responding to what the anti Assad forces ie FSA has been saying for years now...."help us take care of first Assad and THEN we will take on IS ourselves"..."help arm us and support us ...we will do the fighting ourselves"......sounds like a offer/plan to me.....

IS that not in the interests of the US and the entire world right now when it comes to IS???

IMHO it is.......

BUT what does the US do to appease unilaterally Putin...it restricts the TOW from the anti Assad fighters the only real equalizer right now in the face of massive combined Assad and Putin air strikes when MANPADs are not being delivered....WHY the restriction of the weapons flows??...Obama wants to pressure the anti Assad force into compromising with a genocidal dictator, basically surrendering after the massive killing of Syrians would you as an anti Assad force now surrender.....?

After the massive genocide would you support that move??

Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-26-2016 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 01-26-2016   #5
OUTLAW 09
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Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
mwe12.....I had posted the comment that JaN has never attacked the US anywhere globally and while they often do crazy internal Syrian things politically and fighting wise that sometimes causes one to shake their heads they are basically Syrian to their roots and take their fighters mainly from inside Syria.....AND yes they have even had internal and open debates about their oath of allegiance to AQ...which is unusual for a so called "terrorist" grouping in the realm of AQ. So again show me any article, or statement coming from JaN issued as a direct threat to the US such as does AQ and or IS???

Again another contradiction to the so called image of an AQ terrorist grouping.

JN convoy with more than 120 armed vehicles just arrived north #Aleppo cs to fight #SAA #isis & #pkk
#Syria JAN 26


Think about this...what if the anti Assad forces had been able to turn their full attention to IS...instead they are fighting the Assad Shia mercenary army and dodging Russian air strikes....AND fighting at the same time ongoing battles with IS and pushes them often back in heavy fighting ALL the while the RuAF striking is them in these fights...basically the RuAF has been protecting IS with their air strikes against the anti Assad forces...YET we hear nothing about that in the entire US MSM do we?????

Not less than 900 #SAA & it's militias mercenaries exterminated & 1600 wounded in the last 3 months by Rebels at #Latakia battles #Syria

HERE is the interesting point that I have been making for awhile...ALL we hear out of the US is" the Syrians must fight IS", or we "need more boots on the ground to fight IS", OR "we need SOF units from the Sunni Front States on the ground to fight IS"...on and on.

BUT has the US even thought about responding to what the anti Assad forces ie FSA has been saying for years now...."help us take care of first Assad and THEN we will take on IS ourselves"..."help arm us and support us ...we will do the fighting ourselves"......sounds like a offer/plan to me.....

IS that not in the interests of the US and the entire world right now when it comes to IS???

IMHO it is.......

BUT what does the US do to appease unilaterally Putin...it restricts the TOW from the anti Assad fighters the only real equalizer right now in the face of massive combined Assad and Putin air strikes when MANPADs are not being delivered....WHY the restriction of the weapons flows??...Obama wants to pressure the anti Assad force into compromising with a genocidal dictator, basically surrendering after the massive killing of Syrians would you as an anti Assad force now surrender.....?

After the massive genocide would you support that move??
mwe12...think about this.......?

During the past hours #Russia bombed Marea and Tall Jabin, two cities where opposition forces are fighting #ISIS. #Syria

BTW...mwe12...perfect example of the RuAF air striking opposition forces fighting with IS..THUS they are in fact protecting IS...DO you hear anything about this in the US MSM and or from Obama and or Kerry...NO.....

Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-26-2016 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 01-26-2016   #6
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now if we accept the commenter is from the US then the following comment is directed to the commenter....it is far easier to do a cut and paste critique BUT really hard to formulate a direct answer using knowledge of the area involved.
I take the silver line to work - luckily it is closed today. Thanks Obama.

Of the two of us I think I am the American.

Quote:
mwe12.....I had posted the comment that JaN has never attacked the US anywhere globally and while they often do crazy internal Syrian things politically and fighting wise that sometimes causes one to shake their heads they are basically Syrian to their roots and take their fighters mainly from inside Syria.....AND yes they have even had internal and open debates about their oath of allegiance to AQ...which is unusual for a so called "terrorist" grouping in the realm of AQ. So again show me any article, or statement coming from JaN issued as a direct threat to the US such as does AQ and or IS???
Basically the above shows you are a mark for terrorists. JAN is AQ. A decade after 9/11 and those clowns were like "yeah this is a movement we want in on." It is a shame and an insult to the victims of 9/11 that we are not hitting JAN and anyone who teams up with them with daily drone strikes - much less vaporize those pow-wows.

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The mass killing of civilians is an affront to our common humanity and a threat to our common security. It destabilizes countries and regions … [and] creates grievances that extremists exploit. We have a strong interest in leading an international response to genocide and mass atrocities when they arise. … [It is] less costly when we act preventively before situations reach crisis proportions.
Thankfully empty words. We have sat out of plenty. Thankfully we have kept out at least to the degree we have on this one. Though we should be paying it forward for 9/11 and going after the mass-killers and their allies who were in on 9/11.

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Obama administration does not want you to know them as that would require the use of force and Obama is all about the non use of force as he does not want to go down in history as using force.
Takes a surprising amount of personal courage not to deploy US military power to put a new Taliban into power.

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BUT has the US even thought about responding to what the anti Assad forces ie FSA has been saying for years now...."help us take care of first Assad and THEN we will take on IS ourselves"..."help arm us and support us ...we will do the fighting ourselves"......sounds like a offer/plan to me.....
BS - Seeing as the FSA fights alongside JAN/IF, who are also terrorists.

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0 after the "liberation" by #Putin and #Assad in 2016.
It's a war - civilian populations flee.

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You're 9/11 is our 24/7
9/11 as done by the class of people we are "expected" to put into power.

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Obama's answer...hey we have this really great successful Syrian strategy that is working ..."all we need is more messaging".....come on....
He has kept us out of getting bogged down there, we are not fighting to put Islamists into power - pretty good job.

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Let's get back to the US...do we not preach to the entire world that the benefits of rule of law, good governance and transparency is what drives a developing civil society...yes we do so when a civil society stands up and states "we have had enough of 50 years of dictatorship" and simply now want the rule of law and good governance..... should we simply stand by when via genocide they are being wiped out because of these demands??
There is no genocide - first off.
Secondly we gladly support brutal repression in that part of the world.

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BTW...this was written in an article from October 2015 and here we are five months later and the Obama administration has basically caved on anything they have demanded concerning Assad for the last four years....it is telling when one looks at the actions taken by Obama and his NSC.......we simply do not know what to do.
Please do a better job citing things.

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BTW...mwe12...perfect example of the RuAF air striking opposition forces fighting with IS..THUS they are in fact protecting IS...DO you hear anything about this in the US MSM and or from Obama and or Kerry...NO
They do bomb ISIS, quite regularly, they are free to hit both groups of terrorists in whatever order they think is best at the moment.

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IS that not in the interests of the US and the entire world right now when it comes to IS???
Russia is free to smash both in whatever order they choose.

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IS that not in the interests of the US and the entire world right now when it comes to IS???
Or we can sit back and watch Russia/Iran/Hezbollah/Syria do the dirty work for us, basically for free. Let the bad take care of the ugly.

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BUT what does the US do to appease unilaterally Putin...it restricts the TOW from the anti Assad fighters the only real equalizer right now in the face of massive combined Assad and Putin air strikes when MANPADs are not being delivered....WHY the restriction of the weapons flows??...
Great news that we stopped giving TOWs to these clowns. Putin changed the nature of the conflict by showing up and thankfully we have cut back our TOW-FSGs for JAN/IF.

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ssive combined Assad and Putin air strikes when MANPADs are not being delivered...
Thank God we have prevented that insanity.

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After the massive genocide would you support that move??
There is no genocide large or small.

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Obama wants to pressure the anti Assad force into compromising with a genocidal dictator, basically surrendering after the massive killing of Syrians would you as an anti Assad force now surrender.....?
But he is not genocidal.

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BTW...if I were you I would spend far more time fully understanding the Iranian UW support of Shia militias and militant groupings who have a definite ax to grind with the US in the ME....
Nowhere near the threat of AQ and all of the toads fighting alongside AQ in this conflict.
==============
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If an American tried to join the IF - he (or she) wouldn't be accepted, because the IF does not accept any foreigners (and that since at least two years).
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...p-in-syria.php
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Baroudi and his co-conspirators exported American “tactical equipment to Syria for the purpose of supplying and arming Ahrar al Sham and other insurgent groups in Syria whose stated goal is to overthrow the Assad government and install an Islamic state,” according to the DOJ.
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Yeah, 'they discredited themselves' - by MSM reporting nonsense about them... somehow, your own statements are contradicting themselves
Water was carried and AJ stories and SOHR BS repeated without much thought - and even today they are calling people "moderate" rather "moderate islamists." The anti-Assad forces own horrible beliefs and actions have made them so unpopular to support in America.

As I said these clowns could learn from the amazing job the PKK, a terrorist group, has done in turning it's local franchise into the defender of women, secular ideals, minorities, and apple pie - all while expanding its control.

===========
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...alks/79347564/
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Lavrov emphasized that the Kurdish group, the Democratic Union Party, or PYD, plays an important role in fighting the Islamic State group and is an essential part of political settlement in Syria.

Turkey sees the PYD and its YPG militia group as branches of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, a Kurdish resistance group it has long fought and considers a terrorist group.

Lavrov warned that it would be a "grave mistake" not to invite the PYD. "How can you talk about political reforms in Syria if you ignore a leading Kurdish party?" he said, adding that the Kurds account for 15 percent of the population.

Lavrov also warned against Saudi Arabia's proposal to invite only opposition groups that it hosted at a meeting last month, saying the Syrian peace process should also include other opposition representatives, like those that met for talks in Moscow last year.

The current opposition negotiating team announced in Saudi Arabia last week includes Saudi-backed Islamic rebel factions like Jaish al-Islam, or the Army of Islam, which Russia considers terrorists.

....
n Ankara, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Tuesday reiterated Turkey's opposition to including Syrian Kurdish forces at the Geneva talks.

"A table without the Kurds would be incomplete. We do not oppose the Kurds but we oppose the PYD and YPG who oppress the Kurds," Davutoglu said in his weekly address to his party's legislators. "It is not acceptable for us for a terror organization to be included within the opposition."

Foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, in an interview with NTV television, said Turkey would boycott the talks if the PYD were invited.

Lavrov has dismissed the demand by some opposition groups that the Syrian military must lift the siege of some areas before the talks begin, saying that unblocking the besieged areas and delivering humanitarian aid should be an important part of the negotiations.

"There must be no preconditions for starting the talks, and the humanitarian issues must be among the central issues on their agenda," he said, adding that while the plight of the city of Madaya blockaded by Syrian government forces has been widely publicized, a similar situation in government-controlled Deir el-Zour has been largely out of the public eye.


Last edited by mwe12; 01-26-2016 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 01-26-2016   #7
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Quote:
https://www.rt.com/news/330085-syria...a-deir-ez-zor/
..........
Supported by Russian war planes, Syrian government troops have been successful in defeating Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) militants in Latakia province. In the past 24 hours, more than 92 square kilometers (35 square miles) of territories were regained from terrorist groups. The Syrian Army has regained control over 28 towns, including the strategically important town of Rabia in Latakia.

Having lost their advantage in western parts of the country, IS command has now decided to concentrate its forces on trying to seize the city of Deir ez-Zor, the largest city in the eastern part of Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry said. Up to 2,000 heavily armed militants have been redeployed by IS to the region, the ministry added, citing data received from Syrian opposition and the information center in Baghdad.
.............
Nearly 500 terrorist targets in Syria have been hit by Russian airstrikes in Syria over the course of three days, starting from Friday, the Defense Ministry reported.

Russian military aviation conducted 169 sorties between January 22-24, supporting the ground offensive of the Syrian Army and patriotic opposition forces from the air, Lieutenant General Sergey Rudskoy, chief of the main operations department of the Russian General Staff announced on Monday.

From 70 to 100 sorties to target terrorists in the country are carried out on a daily basis, the ministry added.
Quote:
Terrorist command center destroyed by Syrian army backed by Russian air group World January 26, 21:35 UTC+3 The operation was of major importance since the city of Sheikh Maskin was surrounded by a number of commanding hills that could be used to control roads used by terrorists to supply material © Alexander Elistratov/TASS Archive Read also Lavrov: Russian air group's operation turned the tide in Syria LATAKIA, January 26. /TASS/. Syria’s government army backed by militias and Russia’s air group has destroyed a command center and control posts of terrorist organizations in the country’s southwestern provinces, Brigadier General Ali Maihoub, the official spokesman for the Syrian Armed Forces told reporters on Tuesday. "On Tuesday morning, Syrian army units in collaboration with militia groups and support from the Russian air group and the Syrian Air Forces took control over Sheikh Maskin and northern suburbs of Daraa. The area of the deployment of the 82 brigade and the Alish height were taken under control as a result of successful tactical actions," he said, adding that a command center and control posts of terrorist organizations had been destroyed and serious damage had been done to their weapons and manpower. He said the operation was of major importance since the city of Sheikh Maskin was surrounded by a number of commanding hills that could be used to control roads used by terrorists to supply material and to ensure security of areas adjacent to the international highway linking Damascus and Daraa. Russia’s aerospace forces launched pinpoint strikes against the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra targets in Syria on September 30 after the Federation Council upper parliament house unanimously approved President Vladimir Putin’s request for the use of the armed forces against terrorists in Syria. The Russian air group in Syria comprises more than 50 warplanes and helicopters, including Su-34 and Su-24M bombers, Su-25 attack aircraft, Su-30SM fighters and Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters. Air strikes are delivered at military hardware, communications centers, transport vehicles, munitions depots and other terrorist infrastructure facilities. The military operation is conducted at the request of Syrian President Bashar Assad. Russia has repeatedly said it does not plan to take part in any ground operations in Syria.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/world/852412

Last edited by mwe12; 01-26-2016 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 01-26-2016   #8
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What would you suggest them to do - especially since your president (and not only him, of course: all the Western governments) is so hapily ignoring the fact that the JAN is supported by such 'most important non-NATO allies' like Qatar and Turkey (the same ones, BTW, that already turned Libya into a mess)?
I'm suggesting we let Russia/Assad/Hezbollah/Iran/PKK flatten JAN/IF/FSA/ISIS - and bleed themselves and the backers of those groups out in the process. And we (America) should drone strike ISIS/IF/JAN in the process.

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...and exactly how do you want to know there are 'new Taliban' in Syria...?
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When asked about Ahrar al-Sham’s relationship with al-Qaeda in Syria, Aboud made clear that their disagreement was not fundamental: “They, like other Islamic groups, my brother, we meet with them in points and disagree on other points and militarily meet in matters of tactics and disagree with them on other tactics… We may agree with them that Islam is the adjudicator of our work and we may disagree on some points.”

When asked how the post-Assad regime would be selected, Aboud endorsed anything other than democracy: “The method of selecting a ruler varies in the Islamic state. There are those like today’s monarchies, for example, where the king appoints his successor, and also there are those where leaders are selected by senior nobles and wise men, and there are those consulted by citizens. All these methods are legitimate and nothing is wrong with them.”

But he described “democracy” as a “sword hanging on everyone that Western powers want… Democracy is to control people via people according to what they think of rules. We say that we have a Divine system prescribed for his Caliph and slaves… It is the system where the rule is for the pure Islamic law. Allah’s law is complete, and you need only consider the texts and derive rules.”
- See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns....bqSYXtta.dpuf

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How often?
http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=41672
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The dead are : 792 civilians ( 180 children, and 116 women ), 496 men and young men, 655 IS, and 924 rebels and Jabhat al-Nusra including non-Syrian militants.
End of last year from a pro-terrorist/insurgent source. That seems pretty busy to me. Two terrorists for every "civilian" (which don't seem to have all that many women among them).

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If so: mind explaining what 'Islamic State' (aka IS formerly ISIS/ISIL) was ever there in Latakia?
Flattening JAN/FSA/IF is perfectly fine. Would have been pretty dumb to ignore them.

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Nope. He's not genocidal - if you prefer to ignore the number of his victims.
He is not genocidal even with those numbers.

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Instead, he's such a lovely character that I would recommend people like you to try living under his rule - for a week or so, at least.
Wouldn't want to live under the IF/JAN either.

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So, Iranian nukes are not important any more; and that lovely clique in Tehran - that, just BTW, is teaching the entire neighbourhood how to oppress and terrorise own population first and foremost - are now best friends, right?
Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia... Axis of Saints there.

=========
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/politi...rts/index.html
Quote:
Al-Nusra is "much more dangerous to the U.S. than the ISIS model in the long run," according to the authors of a report labeling both groups "existential" threats. The report was released last week by the Institute for the Study of War and American Enterprise Institute.

The report criticizes the administration's ISIS-centric strategy, saying, "Any strategy that leaves Jabhat al-Nusra in place will fail to secure the American homeland."
.............
In fact, Kagan warned that al Qaeda's Syrian branch represented a longer-term and more intractable threat than ISIS and that targeting al-Nusra would be more difficult than targeting the other group, both of which take advantage of the chaos of the Syrian civil war to expand their reach.

"Al-Nusra is quietly intertwining itself with the Syrian population and Syrian opposition. ... They are waiting in the wings to pick up the mantle of global jihad once ISIS falls," she said.

RELATED: What is al Nusra Front?

Peace talks between the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria and select rebel groups are tentatively scheduled to begin this month in Geneva, Switzerland, with the United States hoping that a resolution to the conflict will curtail the power of ISIS and other terror groups.

Al-Nusra, like ISIS, won't be participating in the talks, but the report argues that al-Nusra is "a spoiler that will almost certainly cause the current strategy in Syria to fail."

The State Department has said that over 35,000 foreign fighters from 100 countries have traveled to Syria to participate in the conflict and that the al-Nusra Front attracts the second-most foreign fighters, ranking only behind ISIS, according to Nick Heras of the Center for a New American Security.

Al-Nusra emerged in late 2011 during the early days of the Syrian civil war and was initially largely made up of battle-hardened Syrians who had traveled to Iraq to fight U.S. troops during the American engagement there.

It has emerged as one of the most effective groups fighting the Syrian regime and currently controls swaths of northwestern Syria. The group holds "coercive power" over several opposition groups, serving as a sort of "kingmaker," Heras said.

Al-Nusra does "not have the same capacity as ISIS, but its greatest usefulness is as a base of operations" to other elements of al Qaeda that may seek to strike Western targets," Heras said.
....
Kagan said she believes al-Nusra has made a tactical decision not to attack the West for the time being.

"Right now, al-Nusra has decided not to overtly host attack cells because the al Qaeda leadership's priority is preserving success in Syria and avoiding being targeted by the U.S.," she said.

But she explained that the report still treated it as a larger threat than ISIS because, "We define a threat as having the capability and the intent. ... The capability is already there, and in time the intent will be as well."
Quote:
http://syriadirect.org/news/rebel-in...heikh-miskeen/
..
Last Monday, Syria Direct reported on the rise of intra-rebel tensions between Harakat al-Muthanna al-Islamiya, of salafi-jihadi leanings, and two FSA affiliates over accusations that the former had engaged in a series of “kidnappings, assassinations and intimidation,” culminating in the abduction of the head of the Daraa Provincial Council.

The fear, said a local activist at the time, is that recent accusations “will affect the ongoing Sheikh Miskeen battles,” seeing as Harakat al-Muthanna has a strong military presence on the Sheikh Miskeen front.

That fear appears to have materialized. Harakat al-Muthanna blocked the passage of an FSA-affiliated Jaish al-Yarmouk convoy headed for Sheikh Miskeen on January 17, according to an announcement circulated by Jaish al-Yarmouk on Facebook.

Aside from that convoy incident, little more is known about the circumstances of the infighting repeatedly referenced by opposition media and citizen journalists.

In a video released Monday by the pro-opposition Nabaa Media Foundation, one Daraa resident condemned the feuding brigades for “chasing each other down” all the way to “the Jordanian fence,” indicating that clashes had reached the border.

Civilians and rebel soldiers who appeared in the Nabaa Media Foundation video were united in their demand for rebel brigades to put up a united front against the regime advance.

....

Last edited by mwe12; 01-26-2016 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 01-27-2016   #9
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In what fashion is FSyA a 'terrorist organization'? In what fashion is IF a 'terrorist organization' - especially for you, an American (if you are really one)? What kind of terrorist operations against the USA have they undertaken?
They are aligned with AQ, share the same beliefs, same goal (just right now on a national scale), also massacre civilians, and use civilians as human shields. That they haven't got around to giving us our next 9/11 is irrelevant.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...ical-state.php
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Indeed, a representative of Ahrar al Sham, Labib Al Nahhas, published two op-eds in Western newspapers in recent weeks. The first appeared in the Washington Post on July 10, while the second was published in the Daily Telegraph (UK) on July 21. Both pieces contain obvious fictions. And both were intended to mislead a Western audience into thinking that Ahrar al Sham is something other than an extremist or jihadist group.

Nahhas wrote in the Post, for instance, that his organization has “been falsely accused of having organizational links to al Qaeda and of espousing al Qaeda’s ideology.” This claim does not pass the most basic smell test. Ahrar al Sham fights alongside the Al Nusrah Front, al Qaeda’s official branch in Syria, on a day-to-day basis. Al Nusrah and Ahrar al Sham have formed coalitions throughout the country to battle their common enemies, especially the Assad regime and the Islamic State. The two groups are blood brothers, a fact that has been recognized by some of Ahrar al Sham’s own leaders.

Moreover, Ahrar al Sham has been seeded with senior al Qaeda operatives. Ayman al Zawahiri’s top representative in Syria was Abu Khalid al Suri. A longtime al Qaeda operative, al Suri was killed in February 2014. In addition to serving al Qaeda, al Suri was also one of Ahrar al Sham’s most influential leaders.

After al Suri was killed, presumably at the hands of the Islamic State, Zawahiri released a glowing eulogy in which he described al Suri as his “advisor.” Other known al Qaeda jihadists have joined and led Ahrar al Sham as well.

While Ahrar al Sham has tried to hide some of these connections, its praise for Mullah Omar is difficult for its apologists to explain away.

Omar’s Taliban state, which Ahrar al Sham holds up as an example of a true Islamic emirate, was as radical as they come. Long before the Islamic State celebrated gory executions in its propaganda, the Taliban gained worldwide infamy for its brutality. The Taliban and al Qaeda have modified their approach to waging jihad by attempting to build more popular support for their cause. But their end goals remain unchanged. And Ahrar al Sham’s praise for this adjustment in tactics shows that it has also adopted a more gradual model for inculcating its beliefs into Syrian society. The Al Nusrah Front, which openly adheres to al Qaeda’s manhaj (methodology), is following a similar path.
http://www.juancole.com/2015/07/wash...s-taliban.html
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The Free Men are closely allied with the open al-Qaeda affiliate, the Support Front (Jabhat al-Nusra). This is not a mere alliance of convenience. They have formed joint operation offices. They coordinate closely militarily. They have a common rubric in Idlib Province of the Army of Conquest (Jaysh al-Fath).

When the two groups of holy warriors and their allies took over the city of Idlib this summer, they conquered 18 villages north of that city largely inhabited by members of the esoteric Shiite Druze religion. The Free Men leadership gave control of the Druze villages to al-Qaeda, which promptly began stealing their property and killing them when they objected. Some 23 were massacred.

The al-Qaeda oppression of the Druze, enabled by the Free Men, tempted many members of that group to get off the fence and support the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad. In Israel, members of the Druze minority pressured the Israeli government to attack al-Qaeda so as to protect the Syrian Druze. (Israel appears to have an alliance of convenience with al-Qaeda in the Golan Heights against their common foe, the Lebanese Hizbullah, and brings wounded anti-regime fighters fighters over the border into Israel for treatment. Druze in the Israeli-held Golan rioted and attacked these wounded jihadis recently, alleging that the injure who were being transported in an Israeli ambulance were al-Qaeda).
...
One of the founders of the Free Men was Hasan Aboud, who in 2013 told an Egyptian newspaper that secularism would not be allowed and tried to assure its readers that “the rejection of democracy” does not mean domination, but rather consultation.
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So, what's different between what you suggest and what Oblabla is doing ?
Shouldn't have given TOWs or allowed US export items to be sent there. And we should be drone striking JAN/IF.

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How do you want to know who is Daesh, who is IF, and who is JAN - if you have no HUMINT sources in field?
We can hellfire the Taliban without supporting AQ.

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What do you know about the IF so to be able to say you don't want to live under them?
See above.

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By side that this information is completely obsolete, that plenty of up-to-date information has been posted in this thread meanwhile - indicating Russians have murdered nearly 2000 Syrian civilians, and SOHR cannot explain how they came to the conclusion that Russians have killed as many Daesh.... how do you want to know it was Russians that have killed as many Daesh - especially if your information comes from what you consider a 'pro-terrorist' source?
It's called a party admission. Even handicapping it a bit the VKS seems to have a better ratio of dead civilians to dead terrorists than the IDF managed in Lebanon.

Even with all the yellow journalism about ore dead civilians than ISIS, the Russians are killing more other terrorists than either and almost twice as many terrorists as civilians.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-fighters.html
Quote:
According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, more than 1,000 civilians have been killed during Russia’s four month bombing campaign. By comparison, the strikes had killed 893 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) fighters, and 1141 militants from other factions, the monitoring group said.
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In dumbest possible fashion, definition of genocide is 'intent to systematically eliminate a racial, ethnic, religious, linguistic, cultural or national group'. So, if Assad - upon instruction from the IRGC (a terrorist organization by definition of your own government), with help of Hezbollah (a terrorist organization by definition of your own government) and PFLP-GC (a terrorist organization by definition of your own government), and with support of Russia (at best described as a 'hybrid autocracy') - is systematically destroying Sunni Arab population of Syria, how do you define what is he and his allies doing?
They are fighting in a civil war against an enemy who seems to really like hanging out with/hiding behind women and children. Would be a bit like accusing the 8th air force of genocide, and even then the USAAC managed to kill far more civilians from the air, here it is a deliberate misuse of the term.

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You mean: you want to 'flatten' people who are fighting for their freedom (see FSyA and IF)? But you are against 'flattening' the oppressive dictatorship that provoked them to start an armed uprising, that has incarcerated dozens of thousands of them and murdered hundreds of thousands of them - and that on the top of that is also cooperating with (at least) three major terrorist organizations, all of which are staunchly anti-USA, all anti-Israel, all anti-democracy, all anti-pluralist, and one activelly working on development of WMDs?
Yeap. I am safer as an American with the anti-Assad forces six feet deep and their camps/infrastructure destroyed, than I am with the having a state/safe areas. Really remarkable that our allies created and funded such groups.

The hundred of thousands number also includes dead SAA/NDF/BPM and terrorists.


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...all provided you're really a citizen of the USA... then why is your government selling them arms worth dozens of billions - and that every single year? Why is your government - and your military - supporting their military operations in Yemen? What is making such actions 'right'?
Lobbying, money and lack of foresight in the US government. JANs chief funder wants 72 F-15s. KSA is perfectly ok doing what the Russians are doing as long as it is done in Yemen by the; the same people who are demanding we put up a NFZ in Syria.

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And? What does that report says to you so you can gauge how dangerous is JAN for you?
Being part of AQ is quite enough.

Last edited by mwe12; 01-27-2016 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 01-27-2016   #10
OUTLAW 09
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Originally Posted by mwe12 View Post
I take the silver line to work - luckily it is closed today. Thanks Obama.

Of the two of us I think I am the American.

Basically the above shows you are a mark for terrorists. JAN is AQ. A decade after 9/11 and those clowns were like "yeah this is a movement we want in on." It is a shame and an insult to the victims of 9/11 that we are not hitting JAN and anyone who teams up with them with daily drone strikes - much less vaporize those pow-wows.
mwe12....these two comments of yours are actually quiet interesting in that reflects something said to me when I was working interrogation at a place called Abu Ghraib and in Baqubah, Diyala actually talking to many of the individuals that supported QJBR then and IS now and the other Sunni/Shia insurgent groupings....did that work for a long 18 months during the hottest times in Iraq 2005 to mid 2006.

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At the height of the AG scandal we had a class on the use of culture in interrogation actually interesting as I had been using it daily and in the face of massive resistance from the active force leadership in AG....and BTW the instructor knew me from my former SF days in Berlin.....a big homecoming in AG in Iraq after not seeing each other since 1976 when he left Berlin to attend a US university.

He made an interesting statement about being an interrogator which by the way is a long training course by the Army......

In order to be a great interrogator YOU need no training which shocked the room full of Army personnel.

All you need is the following;
1. natural curiosity of the world around you and an interest in global affairs
2. you MUST have lived and possibly worked overseas and speak a foreign language...country where you spent time does not matter
AND lastly;
3. you MUST have an empathy for culture and how a civil society lives in that particular culture

You should have heard the hectic and loud major pushback being voiced from the military audience....BTW he lived and still is in Jordan, has a Ph.d and speaks three different Arabic dialects.

With that advice anyone who does not fulfil that cannot be in my eyes an American.......especially when it comes to foreign policy discussions.

Somehow we have forgotten we were created as and still are a multi cultural nation. And somehow along the way we ourselves have forgotten why we fought the Revolutionary War winning BTW with the help of the French.
Until you have walked in the sandals of Syrians who in 2011 AFTER an Obama speech in Cairo stood up and demanded as a civil society the 50 year end to a dictatorship under the often from the US used propaganda... rule of law, good governance and transparency....why the term "propaganda"...because the very same US that kicks out those slogans now basically abandons any civil society that uses them as their guiding light. Then this demands were met with a brutal genocide (300K killed and over 11M IDPs/refugees is a high price to pay for their demands).......as the response ...that genocide BTW is Iranian supported by every known Shia terrorist groups/IRGC and NOW Russia.

Even you must admit that is strange.

BTW......you have not really experienced anything until you have spent literally hours with a 50 year old Iraqi businessman who actively supported QJBR now IS complain to you about "globalization" in a US military prison in Iraq....concerning his inability to produce sandals cheaper than the Chinese which was driving him out of business AND why did we the US allow that to happen in Iraq.......now what would have been your response to this from his POV...a serious issue???

WHEN you have the chance and you use your smartphone on the silver line then dial in Netflix and call up the film "Winter of Fire" an excellent documentary film which BTW is up for an Oscar of the Ukrainian uprising during the deep winter against an equally brutal dictator who literally stole 40B USD in cash and gold bullion as he fled the Ukraine into Russia the land of the oligarchs that stole most of the means of production in all of Russia.

NOW after watching "Winter of Fire" ask yourself would you as an American citizen have done the exact same thing and or suffered as they did for "the goals of rule of law, transparency and good governance"...in some aspects they were replaying our own Revolutionary War and they are still at war with Russian with over 66 Russian and her mercenary attacks yesterday WHEN Obama/Kerry and the entire NSC claim "there is a ceasefire" and it is working...come on...working????

Of the two of us I think I am the American.

Let me respond to this off handed comment with the following ...until you have participated in three wars in your lifetime, two of them in the ME and until you have spent a bulk of your career dealing with the Soviet Union in Berlin during the height of the Cold War and until you have physically face to face conversed with so called "terrorists" of both the Sunni and Shia sides and until you have used the Koran in those discussions and until you have spent literally hours talking with Sunni/Shia's and until you have tasted and smelled sand storms in the ME...then you are also not an American.

AND especially when you have not served in UW wars in the US SF.

You really do need to drop using such a statement.

Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-27-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 01-28-2016   #11
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The US under Obama and Kerry will at some point if the US continues to do nothing be complicit in those killings if they are not already.
They are not complicit in those killings, though they rather are regarding KSA and company in Yemen and through their support of other extremist groups while importing US weapons and hanging out under a US defense umbrella.

Though two terrorists for each civilian is considerably better than Israel's six civilians per Hezbollah member, even more so when they are bombing people who hide among civilians with 1970s tech.

Quote:
What does it take for the President and his DoS to stand up and state that if a nation state commits war crimes then the leader of that nation state must be charged with war crimes..
We going to host a dinner for our Mideast kinglets at Bad Saint and then arrest them all?

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UN SecGen has clearly stated today the use of starvation is a war crime and if the US which claims to follow the Law of Land Warfare carefully rereads it...the deliberate targeting of civilians by a military is also a war crime......
Cuts both ways.

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Reference Assad cyber attacks.....currently a high number of ongoing Syrian cyber attacks originating in Damascus and targeting the KSA....has been occurring in waves all day. Have seen the same tactic being used out of Iraq focusing on the KSA and that has been steady all day.
And poor victimized KSA exports money for terrorists and radicals the world around...

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Although the subtle question is ...does the WH actually agree with the killing of civilians and believe the attacks on FSA are OK.....in the their striving for a "legacy"......
America has no stomach for a war over these guys and the government has been unable to hide the stink of the anti-Assad forces. His base has increasingly moved towards staying out foreign conflicts and the other side, which he can't lead to water, has a mix of "let them kill each other", "kill them all let God sort them out", "Obama is a wimp", and a some unrepentant neocons.

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It be good for the WH to look like they are doing something as it will be harder and harder to restrain Turkey and KSA both who view themselves "as defenders of the faith and Sunni global community" and Arabs when they perceive Iran is out to destroy Sunni's and Arabs.
Through support of IF, JAN and ISIS....

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e are slowly getting to that point of no return OR they release the MANPADs and argue the need to defend defenseless civilians from Assad and Russian AFs.....we are almost at that point.
Thankfully I hope the US has learned from Afghanistan and has put enough pressure on them to not send MANPADS to terrorists...

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NOW after that surreal drone footage this is the utter reality of a deliberate Russian air strike on civilians which might require Kerry to do more than simply "ask".....and Kerry wonders why the HNC makes "pre conditions" that he himself via the UNSC has already agreed to BUT cannot fulfill......come on it is not rocket science...just humanity...
They are basically demanding Assad/Putin surrender before they will talk.

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Maybe this can help the Obama WH and Kerry fully understand the effects of Russian air strikes and just why the rebel HNC Geneva team demands they stop...this town had roughly 24K before the Russian groups attacked with Spetsnaz and Shia militia, Iraqi Shia militia, IRGC and Hezbollah....and over 800 Russian air strikes and that included carpet bombings with the Tu-122.
It's a war and Russia did not kill 24k people in that town, they fled from a civil war. Talk about a flawed taking point.

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An interesting game is afoot it appears...so now if the US announces they are ceasing air strikes against all except IS/and maybe JaN and the Russians do not follow suit and continue to bomb FSA a party in the talks...IS in fact then Russia responsible for the failure of any further talks..at least until they stop bombing everyone except IS??
So would the FSA/IF stop shooting at the SAA? I think not. Russia is totally within its rights and acting above board in bombing the IF/FSA.

Quote:
Maybe when it comes to Syria Kerry should be replaced with the former Ambassador to Syria...at least he calls a spade a spade.......
Thanks but no. We sure don't need another idiot calling for the use of force or giving aid to terrorists. Good to let him whine from the sidelines in some useless "think tank."

Quote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKCN0V61M4
Before agreeing to talks, the HNC had been seeking U.N. guarantees of steps including a halt to attacks on civilian areas, a release of detainees, and a lifting of blockades. The measures were mentioned in a Security Council resolution approved last month that endorsed the peace process for Syria.

Sabra said a response from de Mistura was "unfortunately still ink on paper". "We are not certain that the opportunity is historic," he told Arabic news channel Arabiya al-Hadath.

Riad Hijab, who heads the Syrian opposition council, told Arabiya TV members might be in the city of Geneva, but would not attend the talks. He demanded immediate steps to alleviate the plight of Syrians under siege and bombardment.

...
The exclusion of a powerful Kurdish faction that controls wide areas of northern Syria has triggered a boycott by some of the invitees. Turkey had opposed the PYD's participation on the ground it views it as a terrorist group.

The United States, whose Secretary of State John Kerry is among those pushing for negotiations to start on Friday, urged the opposition to seize the "historic opportunity" and enter talks without preconditions to end the war, which has also displaced more than 11 million people.

.....
The HNC groups political and armed groups fighting Assad. It includes some of the main armed groups fighting in western Syria, including the Islamist Jaysh al-Islam, which is deemed a terrorist group by Russia, and Free Syrian Army factions that have received military support from states including the Saudi Arabia and the United States.

Earlier this week the Syrian army took a strategic town in the southern province of Deraa, securing its supply routes from the capital to the south, days after retaking more territory in Latakia province.

Damascus, Tehran and Moscow have objected to the inclusion of groups they consider terrorists in any peace talks.

Deputy Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian said on Thursday his country strongly opposed moves by Saudi Arabia to allow "terrorists in a new mask" to sit down for talks.

Last edited by mwe12; 01-29-2016 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 01-29-2016   #12
OUTLAW 09
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They are not complicit in those killings, though they rather are regarding KSA and company in Yemen and through their support of other extremist groups while importing US weapons and hanging out under a US defense umbrella.

Though two terrorists for each civilian is considerably better than Israel's six civilians per Hezbollah member, even more so when they are bombing people who hide among civilians with 1970s tech.



We going to host a dinner for our Mideast kinglets at Bad Saint and then arrest them all?



Cuts both ways.



And poor victimized KSA exports money for terrorists and radicals the world around...



America has no stomach for a war over these guys and the government has been unable to hide the stink of the anti-Assad forces. His base has increasingly moved towards staying out foreign conflicts and the other side, which he can't lead to water, has a mix of "let them kill each other", "kill them all let God sort them out", "Obama is a wimp", and a some unrepentant neocons.



Through support of IF, JAN and ISIS....



Thankfully I hope the US has learned from Afghanistan and has put enough pressure on them to not send MANPADS to terrorists...



They are basically demanding Assad/Putin surrender before they will talk.



It's a war and Russia did not kill 24k people in that town, they fled from a civil war. Talk about a flawed taking point.



So would the FSA/IF stop shooting at the SAA? I think not. Russia is totally within its rights and acting above board in bombing the IF/FSA.



Thanks but no. We sure don't need another idiot calling for the use of force or giving aid to terrorists. Good to let him whine from the sidelines in some useless "think tank."
mwe12...there is a saying in German that I will literally translate for you...."you do realize what you just said is crxxxxxp, right"?

A third grade German student argues like you argue.

If you did not fully understand the impact of the video then my friend you are truly lost in another world and this goes to what I have repeatedly mentioned here about you.....

Either a troll and or you have never fired a gun in anger nor been outside the US...both I am afraid.

So keep on commenting but am backing out of this as you are lost in a mountain of what the Germans would call "altered state of reality" or what I call "cognitive dissonance"....meaning lost between what you think you know balanced against the brutal reality of the ME that you somehow missed by being in the US that counters your own believes or biases.

Will repeat it here again your style of not using a name to address your response and the cut an paste approach reminds me of another Russian troll named mirhond that was here for a long while on the Ukrainian thread.

So instead of cutting and pasting why not attempt to state what you actually believe and or not believe then we can cut and paste.

Otherwise just keep at reading the posted comments as that is also a form of learning about the world around you especially with the limited US MSM info on the ME that you get in the US..........

BTW---you did not answer my comments on what it takes to be "an American" when it comes to the ME...why was that?.....trolling, trolling trolling.
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Old 01-29-2016   #13
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Originally Posted by mwe12 View Post
They are not complicit in those killings, though they rather are regarding KSA and company in Yemen and through their support of other extremist groups while importing US weapons and hanging out under a US defense umbrella.

Though two terrorists for each civilian is considerably better than Israel's six civilians per Hezbollah member, even more so when they are bombing people who hide among civilians with 1970s tech.



We going to host a dinner for our Mideast kinglets at Bad Saint and then arrest them all?



Cuts both ways.



And poor victimized KSA exports money for terrorists and radicals the world around...



America has no stomach for a war over these guys and the government has been unable to hide the stink of the anti-Assad forces. His base has increasingly moved towards staying out foreign conflicts and the other side, which he can't lead to water, has a mix of "let them kill each other", "kill them all let God sort them out", "Obama is a wimp", and a some unrepentant neocons.



Through support of IF, JAN and ISIS....



Thankfully I hope the US has learned from Afghanistan and has put enough pressure on them to not send MANPADS to terrorists...



They are basically demanding Assad/Putin surrender before they will talk.



It's a war and Russia did not kill 24k people in that town, they fled from a civil war. Talk about a flawed taking point.



So would the FSA/IF stop shooting at the SAA? I think not. Russia is totally within its rights and acting above board in bombing the IF/FSA.



Thanks but no. We sure don't need another idiot calling for the use of force or giving aid to terrorists. Good to let him whine from the sidelines in some useless "think tank."
BTW mwe12...there is a serious weak point in your comments.....not a single MANPAD shipped to AFG made it outside of AFG nor has a single one of them been fired against a western aircraft OUTSIDE of AFG.

BTW mwe12....the eastern Ukraine is awash with Russian MANPADs that they shipped to their mercenaries as well as various RPG types which are slowing showing up on the illegal weapons markets here in Europe.

So what is good for the goose is not good for the gander right mwe12????

And are you mwe12 actually agreeing that the killing of hundreds of civilians including a large number of women and children is correct, legal and fully OK with you??

Let's see using that logic the 132 killed in Paris is not being counter balanced by 169 killed in a single day in Syria....racist is that not????
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Old 01-29-2016   #14
OUTLAW 09
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Originally Posted by mwe12 View Post
They are not complicit in those killings, though they rather are regarding KSA and company in Yemen and through their support of other extremist groups while importing US weapons and hanging out under a US defense umbrella.

Though two terrorists for each civilian is considerably better than Israel's six civilians per Hezbollah member, even more so when they are bombing people who hide among civilians with 1970s tech.



We going to host a dinner for our Mideast kinglets at Bad Saint and then arrest them all?



Cuts both ways.



And poor victimized KSA exports money for terrorists and radicals the world around...



America has no stomach for a war over these guys and the government has been unable to hide the stink of the anti-Assad forces. His base has increasingly moved towards staying out foreign conflicts and the other side, which he can't lead to water, has a mix of "let them kill each other", "kill them all let God sort them out", "Obama is a wimp", and a some unrepentant neocons.



Through support of IF, JAN and ISIS....



Thankfully I hope the US has learned from Afghanistan and has put enough pressure on them to not send MANPADS to terrorists...



They are basically demanding Assad/Putin surrender before they will talk.



It's a war and Russia did not kill 24k people in that town, they fled from a civil war. Talk about a flawed taking point.



So would the FSA/IF stop shooting at the SAA? I think not. Russia is totally within its rights and acting above board in bombing the IF/FSA.



Thanks but no. We sure don't need another idiot calling for the use of force or giving aid to terrorists. Good to let him whine from the sidelines in some useless "think tank."
So mwe12 as a massive supporter of Putin's/Assad's moves in Syria...you must be fully aware of every statement he has made on IS being in Syria...based on all those statements..."he is in Syria to destroy Islamic State" OR at least that is WHAT he is stating publicly.... but you already know that......

NOW explain to us poorly informed here just how it is that in this Russian air strike Islamic State is nowhere to be found ----actually the closest IS position to this strike is 60kms...

BUT WAIT with that highly touted Russian MoD precision air strikes JUST how
is it possible they were off a total of 60 KMS!!

Noor Qarqour, 16-month-old girl killed in Russian/Assad air attack targeted Ariha outskirts south #Idlib y'day.
pic.twitter.com/34GUUipak2

NOW take the time to make your comment here to the family and I will be sure to pass it to them.....the floor is free for your comment....seriously I can pass it on....so please post your response to the above....it will be interesting to say the least.....

The floor is yours...........

Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-29-2016 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 01-29-2016   #15
OUTLAW 09
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Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
So mwe12 as a massive supporter of Putin's/Assad's moves in Syria...you must be fully aware of every statement he has made on IS being in Syria...based on all those statements..."he is in Syria to destroy Islamic State" OR at least that is WHAT he is stating publicly.... but you already know that......

NOW explain to us poorly informed here just how it is that in this Russian air strike Islamic State is nowhere to be found ----actually the closest IS position to this strike is 60kms...

BUT WAIT with that highly touted Russian MoD precision air strikes JUST how
is it possible they were off a total of 60 KMS!!

Noor Qarqour, 16-month-old girl killed in Russian/Assad air attack targeted Ariha outskirts south #Idlib y'day.
pic.twitter.com/34GUUipak2

NOW take the time to make your comment here to the family and I will be sure to pass it to them.....the floor is free for your comment....seriously I can pass it on....so please post your response to the above....it will be interesting to say the least.....

The floor is yours...........
mwe12...this comment shows you are a troll either proRussian and or proAssad....

It's a war and Russia did not kill 24k people in that town, they fled from a civil war. Talk about a flawed taking point.

The 24K did in fact flee...WHY over 800 air strikes...many of them carpet bombing strikes...so they were suppose to stay and be killed...come on .....that is worth a snide remark...come on now you can do better.

BTW this town was not under IS control so ask yourself why it was so important for Putin to destroy it.

NOW reread the thread comments on Ukraine 2015...you will see a similar battle for a town called Debaltseve with the same amount of destruction and THEN check Grozny after the second war....where Russian artillery, GRAD and air strikes killed over 169,000. BUT they were only Chechens not Russians.

EVEN you cannot miss the similarity....but again you probably do....

BTW...mwe12...this was just in ...ABSOLUTELY not a single IS fighter and or IS positon where this barrel bomb from Assad landed...not a single IS anywhere to be seen......SO your Putin is doing WHAT supporting a genocidal dictator...GUESS he is because "it sure ain't IS he is trying to destroy in his protection of Assad."

GRAPHIC
Horrific footage of family son, still conscious w/ both legs, one arm ripped off after #Assad air strike on #Douma
.
https://www.facebook.com/Syriancivil...4888236869817/

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Old 01-29-2016   #16
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They are not complicit in those killings, though they rather are regarding KSA and company in Yemen and through their support of other extremist groups while importing US weapons and hanging out under a US defense umbrella.

Though two terrorists for each civilian is considerably better than Israel's six civilians per Hezbollah member, even more so when they are bombing people who hide among civilians with 1970s tech.



We going to host a dinner for our Mideast kinglets at Bad Saint and then arrest them all?



Cuts both ways.



And poor victimized KSA exports money for terrorists and radicals the world around...



America has no stomach for a war over these guys and the government has been unable to hide the stink of the anti-Assad forces. His base has increasingly moved towards staying out foreign conflicts and the other side, which he can't lead to water, has a mix of "let them kill each other", "kill them all let God sort them out", "Obama is a wimp", and a some unrepentant neocons.



Through support of IF, JAN and ISIS....



Thankfully I hope the US has learned from Afghanistan and has put enough pressure on them to not send MANPADS to terrorists...



They are basically demanding Assad/Putin surrender before they will talk.



It's a war and Russia did not kill 24k people in that town, they fled from a civil war. Talk about a flawed taking point.



So would the FSA/IF stop shooting at the SAA? I think not. Russia is totally within its rights and acting above board in bombing the IF/FSA.



Thanks but no. We sure don't need another idiot calling for the use of force or giving aid to terrorists. Good to let him whine from the sidelines in some useless "think tank."
BTW mwe12 while you are riding the so called "silver line", use your smart phone and look up in "Websters"...you do know the book?, and check the definition of "complicit"......

THEN get back to me.


If you do not respond to this direct question then we know for sure trolling is ongoing...awaiting your response to the question......

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Old 01-29-2016   #17
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. is there any adults left in the WH and the NSC....??
Yes, ergo why we are not doing more.

Quote:
[.am NATO and the EU the US is now out of the leadership role Obama has wanted.....it is now all up to the various regional powers against Russia and Iran
A bunch of GCC kinglets who cluster bomb weddings and couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, teamed with a state which jails people for discussing a genocide it did 100 years ago and is bogged down fighting Kurds. The world trembles.
Quote:
The US has never intended that the bombing actually stop, never intended to end toe war crimes of killing civilians, has never intended to end the starvation an another war crime even agreed to by Ban, and this is critical never really intended to remove Assad WHEN for four years Obama claimed he had to go......WHY he simply has no strategy nor foreign policy.
And thank God we have done so little.

Quote:
So mwe12 as a massive supporter of Putin's/Assad's moves in Syria...you must be fully aware of every statement he has made on IS being in Syria...based on all those statements..."he is in Syria to destroy Islamic State" OR at least that is WHAT he is stating publicly.... but you already know that......
Quote:
BTW...mwe12...this was just in ...ABSOLUTELY not a single IS fighter and or IS positon where this barrel bomb from Assad landed...not a single IS anywhere to be seen......SO your Putin is doing WHAT supporting a genocidal dictator...GUESS he is because "it sure ain't IS he is trying to destroy in his protection of Assad."
A. Assad is not committing a genocide.
B. Russia has bombed ISIS. Russia is still bombing ISIS.
C. Russia is within its rights to bomb the FSA/IF/JAN while supporting Assad. Putin does not have to limit his strikes to only ISIS.

Quote:
Otherwise just keep at reading the posted comments as that is also a form of learning about the world around you especially with the limited US MSM info on the ME that you get in the US..........
Your comments are weird non-native English speaking rants about Obama. Seeing people who have opinions on the spectrum with mine are a part of the reason the US has not gotten deeper with Islamists, I would say I matter more than you.

Quote:
The 24K did in fact flee...WHY over 800 air strikes...many of them carpet bombing strikes...so they were suppose to stay and be killed...come on .....that is worth a snide remark...come on now you can do better.
Yeah they left - so mentioning the population between now and before the fighting started is an attempt to make it look as if they are dead, and not fled from 5 years of civil war. Maybe if the islamists had not held up in urban areas in the first place...

Quote:
So instead of cutting and pasting why not attempt to state what you actually believe and or not believe then we can cut and paste.
I have many times. America should stay the hell out of this and let Russia/Hezbollah/Iran/Assad flatten JAN/ISIS/IF, I would go further and say we should join in striking those groups to keep America safe.

Quote:
So keep on commenting but am backing out of this as you are lost in a mountain of what the Germans would call "altered state of reality" or what I call "cognitive dissonance"....meaning lost between what you think you know balanced against the brutal reality of the ME that you somehow missed by being in the US that counters your own believes or biases.
Please then keep your railing to Germany being complicit on this and leave us silly Americans out of your daily rants.

Quote:
A third grade German student argues like you argue.
I don't know any. But fly to America and hand out flyers calling on people to save IF/JAN. Make sure you tell them that the local AQ aren't so bad.

Quote:
BTW mwe12 while you are riding the so called "silver line",
I am sure I am the only American in this conversation. Probably the only one with a job also.

Quote:
use your smart phone and look up in "Websters"...you do know the book?, and check the definition of "complicit"......
We are no more complicit than East Timor. No court of law would put ascribe any legal liability against Obama for acting a conspirator to Assad/Putin by not rushing in and handing out MANPADs to Islamists. Your argument holds up nowhere.

Where we are complicit is in helping the KSA wedding crash in Yemen.

Quote:
If you do not respond to this direct question then we know for sure trolling is ongoing...awaiting your response to the question......
Calling you out on being totally wrong on the idea of American responsibility does not make someone a troll. Being against ones country getting in bed with JAN/IF does make you a troll. Welcome to the reality of being on the losing side of an issue.

http://www.businessinsider.com/syria...rogress-2016-1
Quote:
The council will apparently continue to deliberate in the coming days and weeks over whether it will attend at all — a development that is in line with Russia's strategy for winning the war on behalf of the regime.

"The bickering over the opposition delegation for Geneva III is the ideal opposition the Russians wish to present—leaderless, aimless and weak," Antoun Issa, a senior editor at the Middle East Institute, wrote on Thursday.

He continued:

It all leads to the fulfillment of the regime's and Russia's strategy: a Syria divided between terrorist jihadists and the Assad regime. Such a portrayal leaves the West with no option but to legitimize the Assad regime in the fight against terror, and certify Russia as the primary power in Syria.

The delegation's decision to skip the talks comes after its final calls for Syria's government to end its aerial bombardments on civilians and lift its sieges on rebel-held areas went unheeded by the UN's Syria envoy, Staffan de Mistura.

De Mistura had insisted at a press conference on Monday that "our line ... is clear: no preconditions, at least to start the talks."

The HNC sent a letter to de Mistura and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon reiterating its demands on Wednesday. It convened in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, to await clarification from de Mistura over whether its preconditions would be met before Friday.

"There is a problem we would like to clarify with de Mistura," Riyadh Naasan Agha, a member of the HNC, told ABC. "Is the main aim of these negotiations for them to be held or to succeed?"

Last edited by mwe12; 01-29-2016 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 01-29-2016   #18
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Default Syria in 2016: an exchange on what to do

I have created this new thread to enable the exchange between Outlaw09 and mwe12 to continue - separate from the main Syria thread.

Both are Americans, one inside the Beltway and the other in Berlin. That does not exclude others from the exchange, as Crowbat too has added a post.

In a moment I will move the relevant posts here and this post will not be the first.
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Old 01-29-2016   #19
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mwe12.....care to comment on this weird Russian FM statement...can you provide me the confrontation they are talking about.....the last time I checked Kerry and Obama did not confront Putin on anything lately...

So basically all this is propaganda....

MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
#Zakharova: We call attention to the depravity of Washington’s policy of confrontation, fraught with dire consequences for global stability
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Old 01-29-2016   #20
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Global evolution (by month) of the 600+ #ATGM fired by rebels in 2015.
~85% are #TOW
.
#Syria. pic.twitter.com/cIcGlkAp2t
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