Interesting Russian FM response to the Ukrainian charges of Berkat Security and FSB being involved in the killing of Maidan demonstrators.
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=494377
And no one saw this coming?Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
Interesting Russian FM response to the Ukrainian charges of Berkat Security and FSB being involved in the killing of Maidan demonstrators.
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=494377
Hey Mark !
Before one even remotely reads this stuff, one should check the author's background, and, some of his works.
He is widely known to be in the mafia. The only way to explain why he is still alive while spouting about the Putin regime.
Looks great on paper, and I reckon, some may consider it intellect
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Outlaw,
The DIAM series was created out of just about any joint manual known to soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines.
Other than on your first day of your first tour abroad, nobody reads that Bravo Sierra save the IG when he comes a visiting (because his checklist is also in there).
Let's get back to the Ukraine and leave the intel Sierra in left field.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Stan --and now you fully understand the intel failures in Iraq and AFG as well the WHY did not EUCOM see this coming prior to Russian troops physically moving.
By the way the DAIM was the "bible" for key collectors in Berlin during the entire length of the Cold War---would not degrade it to simply only for the IG---have seen a number of individuals scrape by actual jail for having violated it and have seen some sent to jail for violations.
It is normal in this world of interconnected social media and mass media that somewhere somehow an article indicating Russian troop buildups would have cropped up.
Or did you read anywhere any response from the US military just prior to the Russian moves into the Crimea---I did not see anything.
If anything that is the lessons learned out of the Crimea for the US military---why was evidently nothing seen, where were the analysts who speak Russian and where was the National level when drones cannot be used as has been the current practice since 9/11 as we chased jihadi's worldwide?
Currently even the Army training scenarios are built on DATE where the most they see is a near peer competitor---not one that is an equal such as the current Russian Army---where we cannot even get a heavy brigade into Europe as they have all been sent home and it would take months to get one back.
Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 04-03-2014 at 06:40 PM.
Stan,
From out here in the colonies it was clear to even the most casual observers that Russia was morphing into a criminal state and starting to misuse patriotism to distract the increasingly enslaved population.
McCain and Romney saw a Russian military threat coming while Obama /Biden laughed it off saying the Cold War has been over for 20 years.
Now the question to be asked is did the CIA see this coming and warn the Obama administration?
Hey Mark !
Before one even remotely reads this stuff, one should check the author's background, and, some of his works.
He is widely known to be in the mafia. The only way to explain why he is still alive while spouting about the Putin regime.
Looks great on paper, and I reckon, some may consider it intellect
Last edited by JMA; 04-03-2014 at 06:37 PM.
Earlier in this thread I posted a comment by General Tim Flynn, DIA, that a strategic warning had been provided for the Crimean action, to the politicians.
Located the post (No.275), three weeks ago.
I noted on Twitter a report that General Michael Flynn had stated there was strategic warning, oddly few have noted this. From his interview with NPR. It starts with:Shortly afterwards:I think for easily seven to ten days leading up to the Russian troops as we see them now in Crimea, we were providing very solid reporting on what I would describe as just strategic warning, where we move from one level of sort of a condition of warning, which I would just describe for the audience as sort of moderate, to one where we believe things are imminent. And we did that about a week prior to the events that unfolded really last FridayWell, I mean obviously the things that we' re watching in the Crimea, some of the naval activities, you know, up around the key bases — we saw, you know, we see some of what has been referred to as an exercise inside of Russia and we are paying very close attention to any additional activities of some of their key military forces that they do have, particularly in the southern military district that is in that region that we are all concerned about right now. So — there is a lot of activity. What we are trying to pay attention to is: are they being true to their word about it's an exercise versus something else
Last edited by davidbfpo; 04-03-2014 at 07:03 PM.
davidbfpo
Outlaw,
I’ve worked under EUCOM since 84 when they had Africa. EUCOM was not some intel dump point and were barely kept in the loop. You already knew that though ! EUCOM and DC didn’t see the Rwandan genocide coming either. Yet, we reported on it and visited that country as part of our regional AOR.
You have this assumption that somewhere on Patch was a think tank with nothing else to do. Seriously dude ?
Let us not confuse National as you term it with EUCOM.
I sadly had to help with the thousandth rendition of the DIAM series. I also had the distinct pleasure of shredding all to include the unclas series during our zero burn in 91. That was the best use of a shredder I had ever seen.
You love osint and I shy away from it. We did the same job, but on different continents under very different conditions. I'm hands on and into the culture. That serves me well and I tend to dismiss BS in the papers. African press does what the dictator says to do, or you die. Not too far off the mark with Russian press. They tend to do a lot of dying
Fact is, all three Baltic States warned of this coming. But, crying wolf too many times and the stories lost all credibility.
Because the Russians did not trash the WTC. Had they done that, it would be a totally different thread herein. The US Military are unfortunately guided by the CINC (the civilian at the White House). You like blaming the US Military ?
I've lived here for 20 years, and of the 4 languages I do speak, I can hardly speak a full sentence in Russian. You don't need it and may be better off without it when working sources. This is not East Germany and we are no longer in the 1980s.
The day may come when the Europeans will welcome us back to bases and not charge us an arm and leg to stay there in their humble defense. Until that day comes, you can stop spending my federal taxes on a whim please.
I could give a hoot. What's the deal with the US Military being responsible.
For that matter, why didn't the 170,000 Russian language speakers in Europe not see this Sierra coming and warn the Europeans of Armageddon ?
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Mark,
Those exotic civilians spend an enormous amount of time drafting reports that most of us refuse to read (not enough time in the day). They didn't report on a Zairian parachute battalion armed and drunk heading for the capital and even denied it when it happened.
The very same told Tom and I the genocide would last 2 weeks tops
What a load of Sierra. Now that's intel at it's finest hour
We are no longer in an election year, our soldiers are coming home, and not a single normal American will allow the current administration to once again do something that has little to do with us.
I did not vote for Clinton and did not vote for Obama. Don't blame me for this Sierra
If you want to blend in, take the bus
This has been raised multiple times since at least 2008 when Moscow used the same strategem in Georgia as it did recently with Crimea. The Russian National Security Strategy and a similar foreign ministry document (both of which I cited earlier in this thread) also discuss Russia's anxieties (insecurities?) about its neighbors, NATO expansion, etc. The media is peppered with comments from senior Russian officials over the years about these subjects. But acknowledging Russia's stated interests, whatever their merit, has not been good politics on the Hill for many years now.
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot
Stan---a number of things---then why do we have military intelligence in a military that appears to not be able to see the simple movement of a tank. Simply save the money and let national do it---- would assist in the reduction of the DoD budget and save money by closing down Ft. H.Outlaw,
I’ve worked under EUCOM since 84 when they had Africa. EUCOM was not some intel dump point and were barely kept in the loop. You already knew that though ! EUCOM and DC didn’t see the Rwandan genocide coming either. Yet, we reported on it and visited that country as part of our regional AOR.
You have this assumption that somewhere on Patch was a think tank with nothing else to do. Seriously dude ?
Let us not confuse National as you term it with EUCOM.
I sadly had to help with the thousandth rendition of the DIAM series. I also had the distinct pleasure of shredding all to include the unclas series during our zero burn in 91. That was the best use of a shredder I had ever seen.
You love osint and I shy away from it. We did the same job, but on different continents under very different conditions. I'm hands on and into the culture. That serves me well and I tend to dismiss BS in the papers. African press does what the dictator says to do, or you die. Not too far off the mark with Russian press. They tend to do a lot of dying
Fact is, all three Baltic States warned of this coming. But, crying wolf too many times and the stories lost all credibility.
Because the Russians did not trash the WTC. Had they done that, it would be a totally different thread herein. The US Military are unfortunately guided by the CINC (the civilian at the White House). You like blaming the US Military ?
I've lived here for 20 years, and of the 4 languages I do speak, I can hardly speak a full sentence in Russian. You don't need it and may be better off without it when working sources. This is not East Germany and we are no longer in the 1980s.
The day may come when the Europeans will welcome us back to bases and not charge us an arm and leg to stay there in their humble defense. Until that day comes, you can stop spending my federal taxes on a whim please.
I could give a hoot. What's the deal with the US Military being responsible.
For that matter, why didn't the 170,000 Russian language speakers in Europe not see this Sierra coming and warn the Europeans of Armageddon ?
Some of us have worked the OSINT/HUMINT far longer and believe that it can in fact can tell one what is behind the door when the satellite cannot even find the bunker nor see the door. So you are right why did not the 170K speakers say something-or better yet why did not HUMINT pick it up--an interesting question.
The problem is that after 9/11 everything went the technical routes and drones have basically pushed OSINT and HUMINT to the side as it was not sexy enough.
Still stand by the statement EUCOM should have seen this coming and if you read the link below they are indicating the same thing.
You will see that the article also confirms a number of things I pointed out in the videos you linked to and is confirmed by my working with Russian staff officers in AV12 and AV13 where we built a unified command structure when no one thought it possible least of all USAREUR/EUCOM. And where we saw this modernization up close and personal.
And by the way no one was interested in reporting exactly what we were seeing/hearing---all they were interested in was which one is the hidden GRU intel officer. Says a lot about our current military intelligence skill sets--thus the comment if they cannot see a tank then eliminate them and turn it over to national but hey even national is not that good if you saw them in action in Iraq.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...-rattling-NATO
The summation of the article is interesting --if in fact Russia has a professional Army of say 100K that can move on a dime with limited planning what does it say about the Trillions we have spent since 9/11 does it not?
Or for that matter then the Baltics should simply sign Russian stationing rights as NATO really will not act nor should they as the Putin doctrine has validity.
Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 04-03-2014 at 08:05 PM.
A European viewpoint by a historian, Brendam Simms, who is now Professor of the History of European International Relations at Cambridge. His stance flows, but his options for action today are - well - unlikely to happen.
Link:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...03/defend-west
davidbfpo
Could you guys go a little lighter on the acronyms? Or maybe provide a glossary? I am getting a little lost.
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene
Outlaw,
You probably know what most of us think about MI…
a contradiction of terms !
We may need a smarter person to answer you. I started life in the early 70s with a whole different set of skills. DIA was my way out of the routine army.
You are preaching to the choir. When I joined we didn’t even have a 286 workstation and everything was hands on, out in the bush, etc. Keeping in mind, my MOS was anything but MI.
You need to expand on this. I still know and work with a bunch of EUCOM folks in every walk of life. But, I know not a single one responsible for all this so-called intel. When a 4-star starts frothing that tells me the folks in DC porked the pony big time.
Russia-debuts-new-sleek-force-in-Crimea-rattling-NATO
Thanks for the link finally. However, seems a ton of folks don't really believe !
The Russians had their shot in 2007, annexation to boot. Yet, they did not. This is not a rogue state. We are in the EU and NATO and whatever some may think Putin is capable of, invading a NATO member’s country has yet to happen. He may have a huge set of cojones, but he is not that stupid.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Hey Carl !
Which one are you after
Here's a set of great links to keep you up to speed:
Acronym Finder
The Urban Dictionary
Are you back to flying in the bush ?
Regards, Stan
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Shalom, бляха-муха! Two Russian ambassadors are having good conversation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xJK00daiKD8
Renault Suspends Combat Vehicle Project with Russia
Sweden has repeatedly warned Russia it may freeze the Atom deal with Uralvagonzavod, as it supports NATO appeals to suspend military relations with Russia because of the crisis in Ukraine. Nato countries' foreign ministries have claimed that Russia's actions are undermining international norms and the trust between Russia and the bloc.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Two very different scenarios for NEO, but this thread is not the place to discuss that. other than to say I think you are comparing apples to icebergs and to note that different commanders have very different risk tolerances.
A river crossing is quite easy if you control the bridges over it. I suspect you know the term spetsnaz and the phrase "operational maneuver group" (the original OMG). The Allies used a similar plan during WWII's Operation Market Garden--an airborne insertion to seize both ends of bridges followed by another one of those armored "dashes" to secure the bridgeheads/airheads. Unfortunately Vandeleur's Irish Guards didn't really dash to the rescue of Frost's 2d Bn Paras at Arnhem.
I mention the Market Garden experience as a way of pointing out what may be a flaw in the Russian doctrine you mentioned--using heavy armored forces to seize key road junctions/bridges: terrain, weather, and a some well situated defenders with the right weapons could easily force significant delays to such a course of action.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
The greatest educational dogma is also its greatest fallacy: the belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught. — Sydney J. Harris
Please do not equate Management's failure to act in the way one might wish with a failure on the part of the intelligence community to identify a possible upcoming opportunity for that Management to earn its pay. David and Stan have already pointed out that intel warnings were provided
And this is not to say that Management did not act on those warnings. I doubt that any of us are privy to the various considerations that may have played a part in whatever decisions were made. It may well be the case that Management viewed the occupation as an opportunity to let Russia self-destruct economically. Perhaps the view is that Russian occupation of Crimea is a relatively short term thing, that the Ukraine can get Crimea back once the Russian state goes Tango Uniform again because of its inability to maintain itself in the world economy. Like GM and Detroit, Russia may be on the brink of bankruptcy. But unlike Detroit and GM, no one is likely to bail out Russia.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
The greatest educational dogma is also its greatest fallacy: the belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught. — Sydney J. Harris
I don't think MG is a valid comparison insofar that the operation relied upon one axis of attack along one route contingent on the capture of a single bridge across a series of rivers. A Russian operation in Ukraine would be contingent on capturing a range of bridges or fording points instead of risking a single point of failure. I'm sure there's plenty of WW2 examples of massed Soviet operations across rivers.
When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot
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