Iraq: Out of the desert into Mosul (closed)

[JWing]

Question for anyone. Why are we calling this an Insurgency instead of a Sunni vs. Shia Civil War?

Because that would ignore the thousands of Sunnis who are in the security forces fighting the insurgency. It would also ignore the several tribes in Anbar who are aligned with the government and fighting militants there as well. Would also ignore the fact that when Ayatollah Sistani called for people to rise up against the insurgency he said that it was the duty of ALL Iraqis to fight not just Shia. Plus the huge amount of intermarriage in Iraq between teh two sects.

[Ray]

Because that would ignore the thousands of Sunnis who are in the security forces fighting the insurgency. It would also ignore the several tribes in Anbar who are aligned with the government and fighting militants there as well. Would also ignore the fact that when Ayatollah Sistani called for people to rise up against the insurgency he said that it was the duty of ALL Iraqis to fight not just Shia. Plus the huge amount of intermarriage in Iraq between teh two sects.

Why did the Iraqi Army just quit before giving battle and let the ISIS run amock?

Did the Sunnis stand their ground along with the Shia in the Iraqi army?

Just wanted to know.

[JWing]

Why did the Iraqi Army just quit before giving battle and let the ISIS run amock?

Did the Sunnis stand their ground along with the Shia in the Iraqi army?

Just wanted to know.

Has been reported a lot already. 3 top commanders in Mosul ordered a disorganized retreat and forces broke. When word spread other units broke throughout Salahaddin and Kirkuk. Has nothing to do with the sect of the units or soldiers.

[Ray]

Has been reported a lot already. 3 top commanders in Mosul ordered a disorganized retreat and forces broke. When word spread other units broke throughout Salahaddin and Kirkuk. Has nothing to do with the sect of the units or soldiers.

Thanks.

Not reported where we are.

[OUTLAW 09]

Thanks.

Not reported where we are.

Basically they boarded helicopters and flew out not telling even their immediate staffs and when that got out-the troops not being stupid read the tea leaves and simply attempted to go home but were overrun by the speed of the swarming attacks carried out via "utilities".

If one can find battle videos from the period 2005/2006 of the Sunni's using armed "utilities"--they were makeshift and basic and sometimes the 12.7mms fell off the trucks---these truck attacks are professional to say the least and the trucks well made---almost like watching American Army light recon calvary just with trucks.

[davidbfpo]

Hamid Hussain's contribution is on the attachment, it is around five pages.

[OUTLAW 09]

For those that do not think there is no Russian/KSA conversations going on.

From the Russian Interfax from today:

12:13 Russia, Saudi Arabia draft nuclear cooperation agreement

This might be the indicator why Russian comments on Iraq events "seem" to be actually balanced and the KSA is strangely quiet.

[OUTLAW 09]

Hamid Hussain's contribution is on the attachment, it is around five pages.

David---the article is interesting but think several points are a tad off as events in the last three days have shown---but this quote sticks out as being correct in 2003 and correct in 2014.

The Sunni population as a whole has decided that after nine years of Shia rule there is nothing for them other than to fight. And the Shia are hell bent on the settling of a 1400 year old debate since they are the worlds "only free and fairly" elected Shia government thanks to the US Bremmer and company.

Goes to what my interpreter said in 2006 ---Arabs must fight each other until physically exhausted and laying on the ground bleeding and only then will they negotiate what they knew the solution was to be before the fighting.

Slavs have a similar saying.

"The lesson for everyone from another blood soaked page of Iraqi history is that every effort should be geared towards preserving existing states no matter how imperfect. When these states fragment from internal or external pressures, they leave only death, devastation and tears in its path. On the other hand, once citizens of a country come to a conclusion that they cannot live together as they have nothing in common then they have to make the painful decision of separation to end the war in a generation rather than bestowing these wars to their children and grandchildren."

Even now the Iraqi Army has been unable to retake Fulluja after four weeks of heavy street to street fighting.

Actually the Iraqi Army does not like MOUT fighting and shy away from it and ISIS knows it.

[OUTLAW 09]

Because that would ignore the thousands of Sunnis who are in the security forces fighting the insurgency. It would also ignore the several tribes in Anbar who are aligned with the government and fighting militants there as well. Would also ignore the fact that when Ayatollah Sistani called for people to rise up against the insurgency he said that it was the duty of ALL Iraqis to fight not just Shia. Plus the huge amount of intermarriage in Iraq between teh two sects.

JWing--the ethnic cleansing in the 2006-2008 periods was often targeted against the mixed marriage individuals and mixed communities and many of the refugees on the move were from mixed marriages---the ethnic killers from say the Sunni side would kill the Shia partner and the Shi killers would kill the Sunni partners or both killing groups would simply kill the entire family to include children.

This focus on targeting mixed marriages by both sides was seen for the first time in say Muqdadiyah near Buqubah and in Buriz in mid to late 2005. The focus on specific ethnic killings of say Shia began for the first time outside of Baghdad in again Muqdadiyah in the summer of 2005 during a wedding when a suicide bombers killing over and wounding in the 100 range-- Zarqawi wanted to see the reactions of the ethnic groups-Zarqawi was experimenting with the idea in early 2005.

His idea was that if one could destroy the mixed marriages meaning the two religions could co-exist and did exist for years--- then the idea of a Sunni Caliphate would go nowhere.

The ISIS has been targeting the Awakening personnel extremely effectively over the last two years---in Mosul the ISIS literally had lists of Awakening members which is today an automatic death sentence if caught.

Would argue Sistani was well respected by Sunni's when we were still in Iraq but he missed a critical opportunity for taking a firm position concerning the 2010 elections but he did/said nothing--a number of leading Sunni's had tried to get him motivated to engage in the Malaki conflict but again he did nothing so I do not think his "voice" carries much weight with Sunni's after the protest camp clearing ops ordered by Malaki in Dec 2013. Many thought that in the 2005 elections he would have gotten more involved--he simply was interested in religious matters and did not want to get into the political infighting. It was interesting that he was behind the drive for early elections, but settled with Bremer for 2005 being the first election.