Mandatory Reading For Anyone Interested in the Middle East: The Israeli Lobby

[Fuchs]

Jordania gave up its claim on the West Bank and Egypt gave up Gaza.
That's quite much.

Now you could point out that these were state claims and the "Arabs" as a people did not give up these territories - but then again it can be pointed out that a significant portion of the Israeli right never gave up the 80% of West Bank that you mentioned.

About Sinai; yeah, guess what? Germany gave up control over Paris as part of a peace treaty as well. Wanna cheer us?
I don't think that Sinai counts for much because it's not at the core of the territorial dispute.

[Rex Brynen]

The 1:1 has never included Jerusalem in the Arab negotiations. E. Jerusalem is non-negotiable for both sides, hence the impasse. The arabs specifically believe that ante-bellum borders are sacred. They aren't negotiating on anything to do with Jerusalem.

Of course it hasn't been non-negotiable for both sides! To quote from the internal EU non-paper summary of the 2001 Taba negotiations (generally acknowledged as accurate by negotiators on both sides):

Both sides accepted in principle the Clinton suggestion of having a Palestinian sovereignty over Arab neighborhoods and an Israeli sovereignty over Jewish neighborhoods. The Palestinian side affirmed that it was ready to discuss Israeli request to have sovereignty over those Jewish settlements in East Jerusalem that were constructed after 1967, but not Jebal Abu Ghneim and Ras al-Amud. The Palestinian side rejected Israeli sovereignty over settlements in the Jerusalem Metropolitan Area, namely of Ma'ale Adumim and Givat Ze'ev.

The Palestinian side understood that Israel was ready to accept Palestinian sovereignty over the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem, including part of Jerusalem's Old City. The Israeli side understood that the Palestinians were ready to accept Israeli sovereignty over the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and part of the American Quarter.

The Palestinian side understood that the Israeli side accepted to discuss Palestinian property claims in West Jerusalem.

Territorial compromise in Jerusalem was also discussed in the 2007-08 Annapolis round.

Such compromise, it might be added, involves the Palestinians effectively giving up hopes of including all areas of occupied East Jerusalem in a Palestinian state, and instead trying to maximize those areas which would become part of the state in the face of continued Israeli settlement activity.

[Sylvan]

Sinai isn't at the core of the debate because its been dealt with. If Israel was still in the Sinai,it would be pretty core to Egypt.

any Palistinian admission that it was, "Ready to discuss" has zero value to me. There is no history of palistinian willingness to do anything BUT talk. Israelis have demonstrated several times they are willing to take concrete and painful steps for peace. With partners such as Jordan and Egypt, these steps have paid off. The PLO and now Hamas have never demonstrated anything except an ineptness at governing and a gift for graft.

The jordian's abandonment of greater trans-jordan was simply a reflection of reality. The monarchy had missed the bus on the marxist, pan-arabist movement and even if they had regained control of the west bank, the egyptians and syrians would simply have supported a palistinian insurgency against the monarchy.The Jordanians gave up something they didn't have and never would have regained.

A strong majority of the israelis realize that the west bank is not a viable part of israel. What % of the arabs are willing to admit the same about Israel?

[bourbon]

The incomplete legacy of Dennis Ross: A top Obama Middle East adviser significantly damaged the Israel/Palestine peace process, by Robert Grenier. Al Jazeera, 23 November 2011.

It is easy to vilify Dennis for acting as "Israel's lawyer", as indeed I and others have done. But particularly as he has never made any real secret of his aims, his legacy deserves to be judged on its own terms. It is we and the Israelis who have made Dennis Ross. If he didn't exist, someone would have invented him. In his many years of successful advocacy, he has precisely mirrored both the strengths and weaknesses of his client, and therefore must be assessed as having represented his client badly: Like the Israelis, he is a brilliant tactician and a strategic ignoramus. A better advocate might have saved his client from himself. Instead, Dennis' many years of successful temporising have helped to bring Israel to the point where a two-state solution is no longer possible. Thanks in some measure to Dennis' efforts, Israel in future can be Jewish, or it can be democratic: It cannot be both. Having served Israel to the point of helping to destroy Zionism: That is the very definition of catastrophic success. Unfortunately, Dennis' record of ruinous achievement is not yet complete.

Ross states that he is leaving for family reasons. While one has no reason to doubt his familial devotion, his explanation seems partial, at best. In fact, Ross can move on because his work, in this administration at least, is done. Having successfully undercut George Mitchell and otherwise parried any immediate threats to Netanyahu, Ross can take satisfaction in the death of the peace process. There will be no more trouble from that quarter, and Obama's pliancy is now assured.

[bourbon]

Secret Service investigating Jewish newspaper column that discussed Obama assassination, by Judson Berger. FoxNews.com, January 20, 2012.

In the Jan. 13 column in the Atlanta Jewish Times, Adler floated three scenarios for how Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would deal with a nuclear Iran and other threats in the region.

Adler wrote that Israel could order a strike on Hezbollah and Hamas, or a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities.

A third option, he wrote, would be to "give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel in order for the current vice president to take his place, and forcefully dictate that the United States' policy includes its helping the Jewish state obliterate its enemies."

[bourbon]

US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat, by Adam Goldman and Matt Apuzzo. Associated Press, 28 July 2012.

Hidden pearls:

During the Bush administration, the CIA ranked some of the world's intelligence agencies in order of their willingness to help in the U.S.-led fight against terrorism. One former U.S. intelligence official who saw the completed list said Israel, which hadn't been directly targeted in attacks by al-Qaida, fell below Libya, which recently had agreed to abandon its nuclear weapons program.

Syria probably would have been ahead of Israel on that list as well.

Some CIA officials still bristle over the disappearance of a Syrian scientist who during the Bush administration was the CIA's only spy inside Syria's military program to develop chemical and biological weapons. The scientist was providing the agency with extraordinary information about pathogens used in the program, former U.S. officials said about the previously unknown intelligence operation.

At the time, there was pressure to share information about weapons of mass destruction, and the CIA provided its intelligence to Israel. A former official with direct knowledge of the case said details about Syria's program were published in the media. Although the CIA never formally concluded that Israel was responsible, CIA officials complained to Israel about their belief that Israelis were leaking the information to pressure Syria to abandon the program. The Syrians pieced together who had access to the sensitive information and eventually identified the scientist as a traitor.

Before he disappeared and was presumed killed, the scientist told his CIA handler that Syrian Military Intelligence was focusing on him.