Ukraine: non-military aspects (August 2014-December 2015)

[OUTLAW 09]

What it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects topic?
Would you please create a relevant topic for this?


Again, nothing but your word against a video evidence - there is always place for reasonable doubt, let me think... I choose video.
I'll use this phrase as a template every time you post any unsupported nonsense

come on mirhond really....,.."video evidence"--means absolutely nothing unless fact checked and or geo tagged---assuming you watched it in slow motion you did see the supposedly "hung" person moving his leg long long long after he was theoretically "dead" right mirhond??? --what was it-- he was being paid by the hour and was trying to get paid for three hours instead of one???

narrative, narrative, narrative

This Russian saying translates well into English--

Putin's Russia says:
1. We don't leave soldiers behind. (mirhond--this is a Spetsnaz saying in the Brigades)
2. If you catch them, they are not ours.
3. If you kill them, we'll send a wreath.


This is actually non military---your Russian Embassy in Kyiv complained bitterly that they could not see the "two former service members" as your MoD and Putin's spokesperson called them.

THEN after the ICRC, the OSCE, and Amnesty International visited with them and a Russian news media did an interview with them -----

WHO still has not shown up?????--your own Russian Kyiv Embassy which is just a drive away from the hospital.

BTW the Ukrainian response was---- "you have never asked for a visit".

The POW Spetsnaz CPT in one interview after stating he is an officer of the Russian Spetsnaz and a Russia citizen said the following---"WHY have I not received a visit from them after everyone else came"????

your know mirhond he is actually right-- -----Russian Spetsnaz officers are now being abandoned by their own Army and Putin?????

it is just like sealing scrap steel from your own ethnic Russian Ukrainians--by the way you never did respond to that.

[OUTLAW 09]

What it has to do with Ukraine: non-military aspects topic?
Would you please create a relevant topic for this?


Again, nothing but your word against a video evidence - there is always place for reasonable doubt, let me think... I choose video.
I'll use this phrase as a template every time you post any unsupported nonsense

http://www.newsru.com/russia/23may2015/voennye.html … Russian diplomats accuse Ukraine of barring their access to the 2 POWs, say Kyiv is brainwashing them against Russia.

Do Russian diplomats really believe what they are saying---mirhond???

Come on not even you can believe that Ukrainians are capable of "brainwashing" Russians can you????????

Impossible one might say but then again those Ukrainians " are really sneaky fellows" so those well trained Russian Spetsnaz intelligence CPT and SGT might well in fact be "brainwashed" AS they keep saying over and over and over they are Russian Army active duty service members and Russian Army Spetsnaz with orders to be in the Ukraine.

--BUT that as got to be "brainwashing" as Putin has told the world --"there are no Russian troops in the Ukraine"--right mirhond???

So comrade mirhond WHO do we believe???----YOU, your Russian Spetsnaz CPT and SGT or Putin?????

BUT wait your own Russian Embassy in Kyiv says "they are brainwashed".

It seems the "Russian World" is a tad confused right now as to what the "real truth" is actually when two Russian active duty Spetsnaz soldier start talking.

How strange is that?

mirhond ---do not try to argue this is not "non military" as we at SWJ are just as confused as you and Putin are--because if we are to "believe" Putin and the entire Russian Embassy" they are "simple miners and truck drivers and former service members and MAYBE just on vacation".

--SO this is not about military per se-it is straight forward easy to understand "non military" as it pertains just to two guys who really just needed a compass and could not read a map in Ukrainian and thought they were in Berlin.

Wow-- never knew "narratives" could be so confusing or so tangled.

[mirhond]

Sturmabteilung fighter posted photos of a rebel with his index fingers cut off.



Both sides are to blame,
Ukraine: Overwhelming new evidence o... amid conflict
... but one thing amuses me at the most - those Nazi butchers don't even think to be discreet, unlike rebels. Perhaps that's because tortures are not illegal, according to recent Rada regulations.

[OUTLAW 09]

Sturmabteilung fighter posted photos of a rebel with his index fingers cut off.



Both sides are to blame,
Ukraine: Overwhelming new evidence o... amid conflict
... but one thing amuses me at the most - those Nazi butchers don't even think to be discreet, unlike rebels. Perhaps that's because tortures are not illegal, according to recent Rada regulations.

see comrade mirhond--indictor of your utter lack of Russian military service--had you served in the Russian Army and had you fired any number of the Russian heavy machine guns you would have been fully aware that they all have an inherent failure--IF you do not watch where your hands are--during the firing it can in fact rip your fingers off.

This check point had a 12.7 cal as it's main defense--by the way the 12.7 is a WW2 MG and notorious for taking fingers off.

US soldiers fully understand the .50cal issue as well BUT here is the difference THEY are repeatedly trained on where to place their hands BUT mercenaries often tend to lack that training AND the Russian Army does not as well train for that exact problem either--point and shot is their only training.

next time stop the narrative and do fact check----

again mirhond as you complain here--this is a military topic and you were off topic.

BUT you did notice exactly how propaganda works--"those nasty mean and evil Ukrainians" just had to be torturing the poor ethnic Russian--see they even cut off his fingers after killing six of his "friends".

BUT you failed to ask a very evident question--THEN if they cut off his fingers WHY did they render combat first aid and leave him completely alone ie ungarded but restrained as is the standard handling of POWS who have been injured on the battlefiled?---just let it bleed out and die--right mirhond--that is the sub suggested trend of your comment.

BUT you failed to have read the first series of twitter comments that reflected exactly that BEFORE the Ukrainians released the "truth"--the first tweets from Russian trolls stated "they had cut off a number of fingers as torture"--BUT then surprise surprise it was just the fingers closest to the 12.7 firing mechanism.

BUT hey anyone can fall for propaganda if one wants to--the "truth" is harder sometimes to accept as it is reality.

Even a dutch ex serviceman recognized the injury in his comments----

[OUTLAW 09]

see comrade mirhond--indictor of your utter lack of Russian military service--had you served in the Russian Army and had you fired any number of the Russian heavy machine guns you would have been fully aware that they all have an inherent failure--IF you do not watch where your hands are--during the firing it can in fact rip your fingers off.

This check point had a 12.7 cal as it's main defense--by the way the 12.7 is a WW2 MG and notorious for taking fingers off.

US soldiers fully understand the .50cal issue as well BUT here is the difference THEY are repeatedly trained on where to place their hands BUT mercenaries often tend to lack that training AND the Russian Army does not as well train for that exact problem either--point and shot is their only training.

next time stop the narrative and do fact check----

again mirhond as you complain here--this is a military topic and you were off topic.

BUT you did notice exactly how propaganda works--"those nasty mean and evil Ukrainians" just had to be torturing the poor ethnic Russian--see they even cut off his fingers after killing six of his "friends".

BUT you failed to ask a very evident question--THEN if they cut off his fingers WHY did they render combat first aid and leave him completely alone ie ungarded but restrained as is the standard handling of POWS who have been injured on the battlefiled?---just let it bleed out and die--right mirhond--that is the sub suggested trend of your comment.

BUT you failed to have read the first series of twitter comments that reflected exactly that BEFORE the Ukrainians released the "truth"--the first tweets from Russian trolls stated "they had cut off a number of fingers as torture"--BUT then surprise surprise it was just the fingers closest to the 12.7 firing mechanism.

BUT hey anyone can fall for propaganda if one wants to--the "truth" is harder sometimes to accept as it is reality.

Even a dutch ex serviceman recognized the injury in his comments----

Russian propaganda has 4 Ds: dismiss, distort, distract, dismay.

#Moscow’s account of #Nato expansion is a case of false memory syndrome http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ory-grievances … pic.twitter.com/fboZx79OVu

[davidbfpo]

From Twitter:

Mike Lee ‏@AgronomyUkraine Crimea irrigated land down to 13kha from 140kha 2013; Crimea has not installed an alternative to the North Crimean Canal cut off in May 2014

Well SWC did highlight this last year IIRC.

[Firn]

From Twitter:

Well SWC did highlight this last year IIRC.

Indeed, although it wasn't really difficult to get right once one knew basic geography and Putin continued his war. An easy bat, just like anticipating high Russian inflation after it's aggression especially with the stupid 'counter-sanctions' and the oil crash.

The Ukrainian economy is obviously in a terrible state, even worse then Russia and harsh cuts are hurting many. The oil crash is softening the blows just a little bit.

[mirhond]

http://www.segodnya.ua/ukraine/grani...ny-618556.html

European Wall will not be fenced all along - says Yatsenuk.

"Если ставить ограждения по всей границе, то нужно еще ставить и пограничников, чтобы они охраняли это заграждение, потому что его украдут",

Fence need to be manned at it's entire length, othervise it will be stolen.
Captain Obvious account.

Всего на укрепление границы планируют потратить 4,1 млрд грн и завершить проект к концу 2018 года

Ukraine is going to spend 164 mln$ untill 2018 to secure Eastern border.

[Bill Moore]

Putin is a scared little man

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill...ssia-1.3010521

Bill Browder's nasty glimpse into the black heart of Putin's Russia

Or maybe it will all come to a crashing end. Now that he's unmasked as a thug, Putin is increasingly at risk, according to Browder.

"Putin is a very scared man," he says. "He's stolen a lot of money over the last 14 years — and then he saw a similar kleptocrat, Viktor Yanukovich, the president of Ukraine, be run out of the country by his own people for doing the same thing."

Approval ratings 'complete nonsense'

"He's on thin ice in the sense that anything could happen that might set the Russian people off ... The approval ratings are complete nonsense. If you're living in Russia and someone calls you up on the phone and says, 'Do you support the president or not?' of course, you're not gonna say no, because you get into trouble if you say no. So you'll say, yes."

I think he is hanging on by a thread, so much for being a great strategist. Instead he is simply a thug that has no vision for Russia's future, his only goal is retaining power.

[kaur]

I think that Putin's biggest problem was not offering to occupied territories normal narrative. He started his conquest with Russkii Mir story by messangers like Strelkov (Russian orthodox FSB guy), Eurasianist Dugin, Borodai (PR specialist from Soviet war correspondent Prokhanov team), Kurginjan, Kadyrov's Chechens, cossacks etc. This was like violent fairy tale called "Novorossia". At the same time he missed the scenario that Ukrainians will start fighting back and western world will back Ukrainians. Violent fairy tales continue as long there is willing sponsor to pay for this.

[OUTLAW 09]

Putin is a scared little man

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill...ssia-1.3010521

Bill Browder's nasty glimpse into the black heart of Putin's Russia





I think he is hanging on by a thread, so much for being a great strategist. Instead he is simply a thug that has no vision for Russia's future, his only goal is retaining power.

Bill--our commentator mirhond should be paying extremely close attention to the following figure--Bill B and his analysts seem to think Putin has "stolen" over 40B with a capital B USDs and has five massive mansions hidden in various parts of Russia.

Well so much for "caring for the Russian common man on the street"--it is little wonder he executes any opposition leader-and it is no wonder he fears the "Maidan".

"Antimaidan" Police exercise in #Russia http://russia.liveuamap.com/en/2015/...cise-in-russia … pic.twitter.com/knIelbGKyY

[mirhond]

Putin is a scared little man

Bill Browder's nasty glimpse into the black heart of Putin's Russia

Greenmailer Browder, who are clueless about Russia, cosplays a visionary.

"The approval ratings are complete nonsense. If you're living in Russia and someone calls you up on the phone and says, 'Do you support the president or not?' of course, you're not gonna say no, because you get into trouble if you say no. So you'll say, yes."

Hogwash.

[OUTLAW 09]

Greenmailer Browder, who are clueless about Russia, cosplays a visionary.



Hogwash.

Russian propaganda 4Ds--dismiss, distract, distort, dismay designed to create 2Ds--distrust and doubt

so mirhond where does this comment fit in?????

[mirhond]

I think that Putin's biggest problem was not offering to occupied territories normal narrative.

What is your criteria of a "normal narrative"?
I believe you just not paing attention to rebels media - even a short glimpse gives you tons of narrative of all kinds, patriotic, politic and spiritual bull$hit, mostly. Do hot hesitate to explore their sites, as far as you read Russian, you could do it yourself.

[kaur]

mirhond, Donbas is Putin's covert operation gone wrong. People just didn't start revolt against Kiev. Period. Is this intelligence failure? Seems to be. What about counter elite against Kiev? Motorola, Zakhartshenko etc? Are you joking?This geographical room is filled with different fairy tails, which are just not serious to normal people. With Motorola to Eurasian Union? Who belives this? Do you remember народного мэра?

http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/998716/

If Russii Mir narrative is ok, I don't understand this GRU captain's story.

— Вопрос я понял. Он очень актуален. Но пока я лучше продолжу о том, что очень тяжело видеть здесь раненых. Молодой парень катится на коляске без ноги. И это тяжело видеть. И самое страшное, что с той стороны такая же ситуация. Тоже — руки, ноги, жизни, молодые русские, славяне. Тяжело. Происходит на самом деле понимание, что русские убивают русских. Есть такая песня у «Любэ» «Красные режут белого, белые режут красного».

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/society/68593.html

This song suits here 100% - Аквариум "Этот поезд в огне"

Colonel Vasin has come to the frontline
And brought his young wife along
Colonel Vasin has rallied his corps
And told them: "Let's go home"
We fought this war for seventy years
We were taught that life is a fight
But the intelligence has just reported
We fought ourselves all this time.

And I have seen generals
They drink and eat our death
Their children are going crazy
Cause there's nothing left that they don't have
And our land lies in rust
Our churches are burnt.
If we want to have a home to return to
Now is the time to return

Our train is on fire
There are no buttons to push
Our train is on fire
There is no place to run to
Long ago this land was ours
Before we got trapped in this war
And it will die if it is nobody's
It's time for it to be returned

And the torches are burning around us
It's the rallying of all perished troops
And people who shot our fathers
Are now making plans for our youths.
We were born by the sound of marches
We were threatened by jail
I say it's about time we stopped crawling.
We have returned to our land.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1nAnLzcfrY

Outlaw is doing good job

[mirhond]

mirhond, Donbas is Putin's covert operation gone wrong. People just didn't start revolt against Kiev. Period. Is this intelligence failure? Seems to be. What about counter elite against Kiev? Motorola, Zakhartshenko etc? Are you joking?This geographical room is filled with different fairy tails, which are just not serious to normal people. With Motorola to Eurasian Union? Who belives this?

I asked you about "normal narrative" criteria, not about your moral judgement of rebels warlords. If you apply terms "normal narrative" and "normai people" - than define them, please. Othervise it looks like you'll call "abnormal" any piece of reality you don't like. If I get you wright - you don't like current political agenda of the rebels, that's why you call it "violent fairy tales", but argument and logic does not work this way, you know. You have to bring evidence that your sentiment is shared by some meaningful part of Donbass population, for example.

ps. BG song is a perfect example of Barnum Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect ant it is irrelevant, unless you mean Donbass population have the same feeling about Novorossia that Soviet population had about USSR in late 80-s. Anyway, you have to bring evidence.

[OUTLAW 09]

I asked you about "normal narrative" criteria, not about your moral judgement of rebels warlords. If you apply terms "normal narrative" and "normai people" - than define them, please. Othervise it looks like you'll call "abnormal" any piece of reality you don't like. If I get you wright - you don't like current political agenda of the rebels, that's why you call it "violent fairy tales", but argument and logic does not work this way, you know. You have to bring evidence that your sentiment is shared by some meaningful part of Donbass population, for example.

ps. BG song is a perfect example of Barnum Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect ant it is irrelevant, unless you mean Donbass population have the same feeling about Novorossia that Soviet population had about USSR in late 80-s. Anyway, you have to bring evidence.

What evidence are you talking about comrade mirhond--the evidence that Motorolla is not a POW executioner--come mirhond even he admitted in a recorded TV interview that he has executed 15.

Oh an that great Donbas leader who led the attack this week "claimed what" 400 Ukrainian killed and over 1000 wounded. THEN after declaring a so called "victory" he orders a RETREAT--come on a RETREAT--what kind of victory is that???

by the way in another recorded video of a fighter at the Donetsk hospital--they RETREATED because the UA was on the verge of surrounding them.

come on comrade mirhond that was also recorded on video footage--and not faked as is normal for Moscow.

and let's not get into Givi mirhond---who had one of his LTs arrested in Moldavia coming from Moscow--come on comreade arrested by the SBU in Moldavia

and that great former President overthrown by the junta who still has his banks in the Donbas openly called those "so called freedom fighters"--thugs, criminals and alcohol addicts--WHY because they robbed one of his banks this week.

evidence mirhond--I have all the videos from the above--- do you??

AND oh those "so called freedom fighters"--they beat, torture and kill Ukrainian POWs--also have the videos also from returning UA POWs.

but you might like this one---let's see those two "former service members" oh forgot actual Spetsnaz officers who were seriously wounded received first class medical treatment and were "not killed for their organs" as their officers told them the UA does---

Beaten Ukraine POW brought to park to meet ppl. Quite a show for Russia press https://youtu.be/T1JW8wZ30jg pic.twitter.com/PERJHb3IIg @OnlineMagazin

so we can go the "evidence route"--if you want--

Remember Russian propaganda has 4Ds--dismiss, distort, distract, dismay designed for 2 Ds--distrust and doubt--so alone in this comment you have used how many of the Ds??????? What 3, 4 or all of them???

[OUTLAW 09]

What evidence are you talking about comrade mirhond--the evidence that Motorolla is not a POW executioner--come mirhond even he admitted in a recorded TV interview that he has executed 15.

Oh an that great Donbas leader who led the attack this week "claimed what" 400 Ukrainian killed and over 1000 wounded. THEN after declaring a so called "victory" he orders a RETREAT--come on a RETREAT--what kind of victory is that???

by the way in another recorded video of a fighter at the Donetsk hospital--they RETREATED because the UA was on the verge of surrounding them.

come on comrade mirhond that was also recorded on video footage--and not faked as is normal for Moscow.

and let's not get into Givi mirhond---who had one of his LTs arrested in Moldavia coming from Moscow--come on comreade arrested by the SBU in Moldavia

and that great former President overthrown by the junta who still has his banks in the Donbas openly called those "so called freedom fighters"--thugs, criminals and alcohol addicts--WHY because they robbed one of his banks this week.

evidence mirhond--I have all the videos from the above--- do you??

AND oh those "so called freedom fighters"--they beat, torture and kill Ukrainian POWs--also have the videos also from returning UA POWs.

but you might like this one---let's see those two "former service members" oh forgot actual Spetsnaz officers who were seriously wounded received first class medical treatment and were "not killed for their organs" as their officers told them the UA does---

Beaten Ukraine POW brought to park to meet ppl. Quite a show for Russia press https://youtu.be/T1JW8wZ30jg pic.twitter.com/PERJHb3IIg @OnlineMagazin

so we can go the "evidence route"--if you want--

Remember Russian propaganda has 4Ds--dismiss, distort, distract, dismay designed for 2 Ds--distrust and doubt--so alone in this comment you have used how many of the Ds??????? What 3, 4 or all of them???

Illustrative: Donetsk rebels stole more than $12 million from A Yanukovych's bank in
Donetsk. Collateral damage? http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2015/06/5/7070300/ …

[OUTLAW 09]

I asked you about "normal narrative" criteria, not about your moral judgement of rebels warlords. If you apply terms "normal narrative" and "normai people" - than define them, please. Othervise it looks like you'll call "abnormal" any piece of reality you don't like. If I get you wright - you don't like current political agenda of the rebels, that's why you call it "violent fairy tales", but argument and logic does not work this way, you know. You have to bring evidence that your sentiment is shared by some meaningful part of Donbass population, for example.

ps. BG song is a perfect example of Barnum Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect ant it is irrelevant, unless you mean Donbass population have the same feeling about Novorossia that Soviet population had about USSR in late 80-s. Anyway, you have to bring evidence.

comrade mirhond-care to comment on any of these comments?????
There's a phrase missing betw "grows as" and "Kiev" 2wit "Russia shows contempt for Minsk and continues to lie that" https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/statu...89731310428160 …

Putin tells Italian paper Russia backs Ukraine peace deal http://reut.rs/1ATxci9

The invasion of #Ukraine remains the greatest existential threat to international security" http://www.newsweek.com/putins-thinl...working-339817 … pic.twitter.com/oyiLnPB7Yc

Very sad: Russia's finest old entrepreneur and philanthrop Dmitry Zimin forced to leave Russia. The best of all. http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/new...-rossiyu---rbk …

An 89 year old Russian declared "foreign agent NGO" who has helped literally thousands of common Russians "forced to leave his native country"--THAT mirhond is what Russia has become under Putin's fascism.

[Dishonesty]

For example 1968:


Esteemed Leonid Ilich,

Conscious of the full responsibility for our decision, we appeal to you with the following statement.

The basically correct post-January democratic process, the correction of mistakes and shortcomings from the past, as well as the overall political management of society, have gradually eluded the control of the Party's Central Committee. The press, radio, and television, which are effectively in the hands of right-wing forces, have influenced popular opinion to such an extent that elements hostile to the Party have begun to take part in the political life of our country, without any opposition from the public. These elements are fomenting a wave of nationalism and chauvinism, and are provoking an anti-Communist and anti-Soviet psychosis.

Our collective -- the Party leadership -- has made a number of mistakes. We have not properly defended or put into effect the Marxist-Leninist norms of party work and above all the principles of democratic centralism. The Party leadership is no longer able to defend itself successfully against attacks on socialism, and it is unable to organize either ideological or political resistance against the right-wing forces. The very existence of socialism in our country is under threat.

At present, all political instruments and the instruments of state power are paralyzed to a considerable degree. The right-wing forces have created conditions suitable for a counterrevolutionary coup.

In such trying circumstances we are appealing to you, Soviet Communists, the lending representatives of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, with a request for you to lend support and assistance with all the means at your disposal. Only with your assistance can the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic be extricated from the imminent danger of counterrevolution.

We realize that for both the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and the Soviet government, this ultimate step to preserve socialism in the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic will not be easy. Therefore, we will struggle with all our power and all our means. But if our strength and capabilities are depleted or fail to bring positive results, then our statement should be regarded as an urgent request and plea for your intervention and all-round assistance.

In connection with the complex and dangerous course of the situation in our country, we request that you treat our statement with the utmost secrecy, and for that reason we are writing to you, personally, in Russian.

Alois Indra

Drahomir Kolder

Antonin Kapek

Oldrich Svestka

Vasil Bilak