Iraq: Out of the desert into Mosul (closed)

[slapout9]

IS moved fast in taking and holding ground. The terrorist troops are well trained. Why? Because they have technical knowledge as to how to operate tanks and AFV's. This suggests that the [Sunni]fighters of IS are former [Saddam Era] Iraqi Army officers, Republican Guard, and Fedayeen. It is interesting to me that in the media you see these "experts" commenting on the BRUTALITY of IS, but none has raised the point that IS atrocities and the public display of those atrocities in the social media and otherwise are making full use of PSYOPS. IS defeats its opposition psychologically before it ever encounters them in the field. It reminds me somewhat of what Sun Tzu said about the optimum in warfare is having the ability to defeat your enemy without firing a shot. I don't see men of absolutely no military experience having the mental disposition to wage war like the IS terrorists do. The approach is too professional even if it is reprehensible under the Rules of Land Warfare.

That is an excellent analysis. The experts are approaching this all wrong. This is a Religious War and you must destroy the counter value targets first! Then go to counter force targets. That is part of the reason I keep pounding on some of the points I have made regardless of how controversial they may seem.

ISIS is demonstrating that their God is more powerful than our God. If you want to defeat them you must destroy "THEIR" symbols of Religious authority and legitimacy, otherwise they are continuing to demonstrate that their God is better than every one else's, which gives them a tremendous psychological and recruiting advantage.

The American military must admit that their old analysis and warfare techniques are not going to work and somehow face the fact that they must change their thinking and face the fact that this is not an Insurgency but is a Religious struggle for world domination.

[Bill Moore]

Yes, ISIS is waging a religious war, but what percent of the global Muslim population does ISIS represent? Worse case would be 10% (that is certainly high). You want to blow up religious symbols which will generate even more support for them. You accuse the President of being a secret Muslim, even if he was so what? Yet you're the one promoting a strategy that would support ISIS. Think about the 2d and 3d order effects of what you're promoting.

Destroying religious symbols is little more than an emotional approach that would accomplish nothing militarily, and only serve to set us back politically. ISIS is waging a religious war, we are NOT waging a religious war just because one of our adversaries are. We are waging a war against AQAA. The religious aspect is critical, but that doesn't mean we need to engage in religious war, we just need to understand our adversary is and what that means.

Consider reversing your proposal, if someone blew up your church would you roll over and quit? Or would you mobilize and resist harder? History indicates most will pursue the second option.

[AmericanPride]

If you're going to continue to promote genocide, hatred, and attacking religious symbols you would be better off posting somewhere else other than SWJ. I don't think our community wants to be associated with the tripe that be found on extremist websites. This has nothing to do with being politically correct, your proposals are contrary to sound strategy period.

+1

That kind of garbage should be taken elsewhere.

[davidbfpo]

A timely article from Time: 'ISIS Is Ignoring Islam’s Teachings on Yazidis and Christians':https://time.com/3093732/isis-iraq-y...nd-christians/

Here's what the Prophet and the Quran really say about how to treat the two faith groups

(Ends with) To the ISIS or anyone who sympathizes with them, know that Islam believes in a God of mercy, a scripture of mercy, and a Prophet who sent as a mercy to all the worlds. It is time to abandon persecution and violence, murder and mayhem. The enemy you seek to fight is within you. The pursuit of power is the problem. The pursuit of peace and social justice is what God really calls us to. Put down your arms. And, raise up your hands to the sky seeking God’s forgiveness for unconscionable sins.

[KingJaja]

A timely article from Time: 'ISIS Is Ignoring Islam’s Teachings on Yazidis and Christians':https://time.com/3093732/isis-iraq-y...nd-christians/

I don't think anyone is listening - not Boko Haram in my native Nigeria, not ISIS Iraq nor a not so insignificant number of Muslims.

I think Western liberals are in denial about what they are up against. There the "Mecca verses of the Quran" (respectful of Christianity) and the "Medina verses" (which look like a go ahead to destroy Christians and Jews) - whatever is chosen us up to the individual Muslim.

Ustaz Mahmood Taha (Republican Brothers) advocated a return to the "Mecca verses" - he was hanged in the 1980's in Sudan. A more tolerant version of Islam (West African Sufism) is under threat by Salafism promoted by America's ally (Saudi Arabia).

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of Western liberals. I'm a Nigerian Christian. I know a face of Islam that Western academics, liberals, journalists, diplomats, policy makers and analysts pretend doesn't exist.

I cannot afford to be "politically correct".

[ganulv]

I think Western liberals are in denial about what they are up against. There the "Mecca verses of the Quran" (respectful of Christianity) and the "Medina verses" (which look like a go ahead to destroy Christians and Jews) - whatever is chosen is up to the individual Muslim.

To say that interpretation is up to individuals isn’t to say that a document doesn’t have a core meaning. Almost everyone in the United States has an opinion on and an interpretation of our Constitution. Most of them know f@#k all about it and its history. I, for one, am not willing to say that the U.S. Constitution means whatever anyone thinks it means.

[slapout9]

I don't think anyone is listening - not Boko Haram in my native Nigeria, not ISIS Iraq nor a not so insignificant number of Muslims.

I think Western liberals are in denial about what they are up against. There the "Mecca verses of the Quran" (respectful of Christianity) and the "Medina verses" (which look like a go ahead to destroy Christians and Jews) - whatever is chosen us up to the individual Muslim.

Ustaz Mahmood Taha (Republican Brothers) advocated a return to the "Mecca verses" - he was hanged in the 1980's in Sudan. A more tolerant version of Islam (West African Sufism) is under threat by Salafism promoted by America's ally (Saudi Arabia).

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of Western liberals. I'm a Nigerian Christian. I know a face of Islam that Western academics, liberals, journalists, diplomats, policy makers and analysts pretend doesn't exist.

I cannot afford to be "politically correct".

God Bless you, perhaps one day my country will have the courage that you do.

[JMA]

Slap the question is how we have reached this point in history.

It was the West's failure to act in Syria - led by current US Administration - which set the scene for the current state of affairs in Iraq where it is all happening.

Now when it is time to act and act decisively the Whitehouse dithers and places all kinds of self imposed limitations upon its response. Quite pathetic.

It is American weakness that has opened the door for radical Islam to exploit. Tony Blair warned the world of the threat of radical Islam and the smart guys - we have a number around here - laughed him and his warning off. Its time to pay the price for the dithering and cowardice of western leadership now.

It should never have got to this.

That is an excellent analysis. The experts are approaching this all wrong. This is a Religious War and you must destroy the counter value targets first! Then go to counter force targets. That is part of the reason I keep pounding on some of the points I have made regardless of how controversial they may seem.

ISIS is demonstrating that their God is more powerful than our God. If you want to defeat them you must destroy "THEIR" symbols of Religious authority and legitimacy, otherwise they are continuing to demonstrate that their God is better than every one else's, which gives them a tremendous psychological and recruiting advantage.

The American military must admit that their old analysis and warfare techniques are not going to work and somehow face the fact that they must change their thinking and face the fact that this is not an Insurgency but is a Religious struggle for world domination.

[davidbfpo]

Moderator states

The second phrase is or else.

SWC seeks to promote dialogue on 'small wars' and related subjects. We have RoE and are not a political board. Accordingly I have acted to edit out a few phrases where the language is OTT and damaging to SWC. We pride ourselves on being a place to come to, read, maybe engage and above all value.

Additional action will be taken if there is more OTT postings.