Chinese Cyber (war)fare (merged thread)

[carl]

Just out of curiosity, how would you propose to stop them?

How do you normally stop hoods?

(comment containing words such as panic, hysteria, unrealistic, nuance, realistically, subtleties, unwarranted fears etc. is sure to follow.)

[Dayuhan]

What would Bill Casey do?

I don't know, why don't you ask him and tell us what he says?

How do you normally stop hoods?

If they're doing something illegal, you call the cops and have them stopped. I'm not sure how applicable that is to China's internet activities. Who you gonna call?

If the hoods are doing something immediately threatening and there are no cops, you could try to stop them yourself, which brings you right back to the original question... how do you propose to stop them?

[bourbon]

I don't know, why don't you ask him and tell us what he says?

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/96unclass/farewell.htm


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/02/op...l-dossier.html

The technology topping the Soviets' wish list was for computer control systems to automate the operation of the new trans-Siberian gas pipeline. When we turned down their overt purchase order, the K.G.B. sent a covert agent into a Canadian company to steal the software; tipped off by Farewell, we added what geeks call a ''Trojan Horse'' to the pirated product.

''The pipeline software that was to run the pumps, turbines and valves was programmed to go haywire,'' writes Reed, ''to reset pump speeds and valve settings to produce pressures far beyond those acceptable to the pipeline joints and welds. The result was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion and fire ever seen from space.''

[carl]

If the hoods are doing something immediately threatening and there are no cops, you could try to stop them yourself,...

How do you stop them yourself?

[carl]

Bourbon:

The CIA doc you linked to was very interesting and contained this passage.

On 17 January 1983, to define his policy for political, military, and economic relations with the USSR, Reagan approved National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 75, U. S. Relations with the USSR, a document spelling out purposes, themes, and strategy for competing in the Cold War. It specified three policy elements: containment and reversal of Soviet expansionism, promotion of change in the internal system to reduce the power of the ruling elite, and engagement in negotiations and agreements that would enhance US interests.

That strategy seems as if it would be a very appropriate one to apply toward Red China today. Hell, reducing the power of the ruling elite would be downright humanitarian.

[Dayuhan]

How do you stop them yourself?

That's the question I asked you. It seemed relevant, since you were the one discussing stopping them.

For me it would depend entirely on what you want them to stop doing, how badly you want them to stop doing it, and how willing you are to deal with the probable consequences of whatever means are proposed to get them to stop doing it.

The CIA doc you linked to was very interesting and contained this passage.

"On 17 January 1983, to define his policy for political, military, and economic relations with the USSR, Reagan approved National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 75, U. S. Relations with the USSR, a document spelling out purposes, themes, and strategy for competing in the Cold War. It specified three policy elements: containment and reversal of Soviet expansionism, promotion of change in the internal system to reduce the power of the ruling elite, and engagement in negotiations and agreements that would enhance US interests."

That strategy seems as if it would be a very appropriate one to apply toward Red China today. Hell, reducing the power of the ruling elite would be downright humanitarian.

Again these are very generic prescriptions, and the question would be what exactly could or should be done to advance these prescriptions. It might also be pointed out that some of what was done to contain and reverse Soviet expansionism didn't exactly work out for us, notably sustaining various dictators who claimed to be anti-communist and supporting various insurgents who turned out to be not so much anti-communist as anti-everybody. Any such set of broad goals stands or falls on the specific steps chosen to advance the goals.

Of course the Chinese cyber-espionage project is well known, and we can assume that all of the standard responses are in progress, from analyzing their espionage priorities to determine their perceived weaknesses to trying to set them up to steal things that will backfire on hem. Of course the Chinese also know these moves are in progress and will be taking their own steps to counter them. That's the nature of the game.

As for the aforementioned "water army", described this way:

paid posters are known as the Internet Water Army because they are ready and willing to 'flood' the internet for whoever is willing to pay. The flood can consist of comments, gossip and information (or disinformation)

it would appear to indicate, in simple terms, an unlimited capacity for generating spam. How large a threat this entails remains unclear.

As suggested on another thread, it is useful to determine what specifically we fear.

[bourbon]

Of course the Chinese also know these moves are in progress and will be taking their own steps to counter them. That's the nature of the game.

You see thats the beauty of it; they’ll never what we’ve monkey-wrenched and what we haven’t! They’ll have billions of lines of code to pore over if they want to prevent mass industrial disaster.

Tell your Guoanbu pals that I will rejoice their tears, ####bird.

[Dayuhan]

You see thats the beauty of it; they’ll never what we’ve monkey-wrenched and what we haven’t! They’ll have billions of lines of code to pore over if they want to prevent mass industrial disaster.

I'm sure that's assumed, and has been from the start.

A try perhaps, but please answer the question. How would you stop a hood yourself?

Depends on what he's doing, to whom he's doing it, how badly I want him to stop, etc.

Obviously.

There's an enormous range of possible response, from "none necessary" up to "maximum violence", and a whole lot in between. Different circumstances call for different responses.

Obviously.

Again, I'm not the one who brought up "hoods", nor am I the one who proposed stopping anyone from doing anything, so I'm not sure why the question's being asked.

[carl]

. For me it would depend entirely on what you want them to stop doing, how badly you want them to stop doing it, and how willing you are to deal with the probable consequences of whatever means are proposed to get them to stop doing it.

A try perhaps, but please answer the question. How would you stop a hood yourself?