|
||||||||
|
||||||||
| Military - Other Echelons away from the trigger pullers, from operational art and theater logistics to service combat development to just plain FOBbits. |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#141 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
Attached are two .pdfs, which Bloodhound will scan to make sure I haven't attached the wrong pages. ![]() pdf 3-4. The end of p.3 and start of p.4 states the judge has received classified information, which will not be given to the plaintiffs or their attorneys. It will be placed in a classified appendix for review by appellate judges, including the judge's classified opinion on the classified information. The whole package, unclassified and classified, constitutes the full record. The unclassified public opinion is reviewed by the FBI prior to its release (footnote 1 to p.4). pdf 74-76. Actually appendices. The ACLU's requests (Appendix I) are very extensive. Thus, Appendix I is a key to Appendix II (of a single unclassified sentence). Appendix II (the classified part) could be a large package of all the material documents requested; or, more likely, an index to and summaries of the documents. The bottom line is that Judge McMahon could be the most informed person on the law and process of drone strikes, outside the White House. ![]() Regards Mike PS Carl: you know that I'm just poking fun at myself - sometimes you are just so serious:
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|
|
|
|
|
#142 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver on occasion
Posts: 1,790
|
Quote:
A bloodhound! Tres cool.
__________________
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#143 | ||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
As we have seen from the DoJ "White Paper", drone strikes involve choosing the law which will control the case. The basic choice is between the "war" (armed conflict) paradigm and the "law enforcement” paradigm, with each paradigm having branching choices of legal subsets. Life is less confusing when the author initially lays out the choices, and then goes to the author's reasoning in selecting the "correct" law. That style can be called "analysis". Another style is to setup a strawman and proceed to demolish it, hopefully (to the author) generating emotions in the reader. The style might be called a form of "advocacy".
HT to Jack Goldsmith at Lawfare for linking two articles which illustrate the two styles. The first article discusses the basic choices: the "war" (armed conflict) paradigm and the "law enforcement” paradigm - and briefly explains the consequences of each choice, including the Obama administration's choice of the "war" (armed conflict) paradigm and the "law enforcement” paradigm President Obama Can Do Anything He Wants To Fight Terrorism - That’s the lesson of the leaked drone memo (by Eric Posner, 5 Feb 2013): Quote:
IF the law enforcement approach were the only approach to be taken (that is, the drone strikes are taking place outside of an armed conflict), then I would find them illegal. However, they would not be "war crimes" (because they then would be taking place outside of an armed conflict). They would be some form of homicide under the applicable "Rule of Law" - probably premeditated murder, given the degree of planning, deliberation, etc. I have stated that many times; but I also have stated that individual killing or detention operations can be based either on a war approach or on a law enforcement approach under US law. In short, both choices are generally available to choose between in any given operation. The second piece is advocacy, and not analysis. It jumps directly to the law enforcement approach, without consideration of the war approach (the actual choice of the Obama administration). It doesn't make any of the arguments that have been made against the war approach. In fact, it sets up a strawman and then proceeds to demolish its own creation. Drone Strike Out - The Obama administration's drone strike memo is unconstitutional (by Jeffrey Rosen, 6 Feb 2013): Quote:
1. The strikes are made against a non-state group that cannot be an "armed force" subject to the Geneva Conventions. 2. The strikes are made outside of the territorial limits of an "armed conflict" subject to the Geneva Conventions. 3. The strikes are made in a conflict area, but the conflict is of too low intensity to be an "armed conflict" subject to the Geneva Conventions. 4. The strikes are made in a conflict area, but the conflict is of too low continuity to be an "armed conflict" subject to the Geneva Conventions. 5. The strikes are outside of the scope of the AUMF used to justify the strikes; and, outside of the scope of the President's separate powers as CinC. Rosen elects not to analyze those factors; but simply skips to the law enforcement approach as the only paradigm (which is not the paradigm chosen by the Obama administration !). That's his "right" as an advocate. But then, his piece must be taken for what it is - advocacy intended to make the reader outraged; and for what it lacks - a rationale to take one into his strawman situation. Of course, the "war paradigm" itself does have its limitations. Of them, distinction is the key factor. When a non-state group lacks the attributes of a regular "armed force", identification of its members as combatants (armed force members who participate in combat), non-combatants (armed force members who have a qualified immunity) and civilians (not armed force members) can only be done by functional tests - comparison of how their participation or non-participation lines up with similar roles played by the participants and non-participants in warfare conducted between regular "armed forces". Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. Last edited by jmm99; 02-06-2013 at 08:24 PM. |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#144 | ||||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
Gregory McNeal is back at Lawfare for a series of guest posts. He was linked here in 2011, Kill or Capture - the McNeal View.
McNeal again confronts the practical aspects of direct actions (focusing on drone strikes, but the principles play across the spectrum) in How to Make A Kill List (by Gregory McNeal, February 25, 2013): Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
||||
|
|
|
|
|
#145 | |||||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
We return to the next installment, Kill-Lists and Network Analysis (by Gregory McNeal, February 25, 2013):
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At this point, consideration must also be given to both the immediate and long-range fallout effects of the particular strike, including but not limited to the perceptions among external observers. As to the last factor, how much methodology and sources should be disclosed: Quote:
Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|||||
|
|
|
|
|
#146 | |||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
Kill-List Baseball Cards and the Targeting Paper Trail (by Gregory McNeal, February 26, 2013).
This serial starts with a mock-up/depiction of what an actual kill-list baseball card looks like. It is not a "real" baseball card and is not based on any classified information. It is a large jpg and is found here. McNeal first considers the data and intelligence that underlies the "baseball card": Quote:
The process then goes to another judgment call step, which checks on the preliminary decisions to target a specific individual (or perhaps, a defined type of individual in a "signature strike", which is not McNeal's focus in this series): Quote:
Quote:
Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|||
|
|
|
|
|
#147 | |||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
The Politics of Accountability for Targeted Killings (by Gregory McNeal, March 14, 2013).
The first part of McNeal's Lawfare post, before getting into the "politics of accountability", sums up the end stage of the targeting approval process: Quote:
McNeal's complete article (127 pages) is available at SSRN, Kill-Lists and Accountability: Quote:
Quote:
Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|||
|
|
|
|
|
#148 | |||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
Presidential Politics, International Affairs and (a bit on) Pakistani Sovereignty (by Gregory McNeal, March 15, 2013), continues with a look at presidential and international politics as "potential accountability mechanisms".
The bottom lines, to me, are (1) that a majority of Americans support drone strikes and other forms of direct action against AQ and associated groups, regarding all of that as forms of legitimate warfare; and (2) that an overwhelming majority of the EU and UN elites (and their populations) are in total disagreement with the USG and the American people. Quote:
For example, at the same time as McNeal was posting at Lawfare, Ben Emmerson and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism were engaging drones as they have in past: From AP, UN says US drones violate Pakistan's sovereignty (by SEBASTIAN ABBOT, March 15, 2013): Quote:
Quote:
Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. Last edited by jmm99; 03-16-2013 at 02:36 AM. |
|||
|
|
|
|
|
#149 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
Statement of the Special Rapporteur following meetings in Pakistan - UN Counter-Terrorism Expert meets victims of drone strikes in Waziristan and receives clear statement from the Government of Pakistan that it considers US drone strikes to be counter-productive, contrary to international law, and a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity (ISLAMABAD, 14 March 2013).
Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|
|
|
|
|
#150 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver on occasion
Posts: 1,790
|
Mike:
Putting legality of the strikes aside, I wonder if in the long run they are worth it. That opinion graph you posted made me think of that. Some of the countries in there don't matter, Greece and Spain for example. But some matter quite a lot, Britain, Mexico and Turkey. One big reason South Vietnam was conquered by the Reds was because the Communists won the battle for world public opinion. That had a real life and death consequence for millions of. I don't know how this will play out over the years but public opinion in other countries, especially the important ones, matters. Almost half of those in India had no opinion. That might not be good since most of the drone attacks are against people who would happily slaughter Indians.
__________________
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene Last edited by carl; 03-17-2013 at 09:01 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#151 | ||||||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
Hi Carl,
I'd love to put aside the "legality issues" of drone strikes; and look at the much broader picture. That includes not only the simplistic question ("Is it legal ?"), but questions of purpose, scope, judgment and wisdom - the tough questions. I think McNeal addresses some of them in his 127-page article; though admittedly, I had a tendency to drift (like Lawrence on his camel) as I got into the middle third. ![]() Yesterday, I ran into an interesting non-legal article that summed up 5 key issues regarding the "drone war" - in two pdf pages. From "The Week" (its "The Compass" blog), 5 truths about the drone war (March 13, 2013; by Marc Ambinder - "Marc Ambinder (born c. 1978) is an American editor and journalist, editor-at-large of The Week, a contributing editor at GQ and at The Atlantic." see, very brief Wiki): Quote:
) that the polling results, both favorable and unfavorable to the USG and USP (People) positions, are heavily motivated by the "concept of hovering, amoral surveillance machines with missiles attached to them". Leaving behind my expertise or lack of same, what are Mr Ambinder's Five Points (snipped) ? - Quote:
5. RPVs are NOT the future of warfare. They are a future part OF warfare. Ambinder's argument for this is: Quote:
1. The drone war is not fought primarily with drones. Ambinder's argument for this is: Quote:
2. The CIA does not "fly" drones. Ambinder's argument for this is: Quote:
On this point (which is a legal one), Wells Bennett notes: Quote:
- to be continued -
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. Last edited by jmm99; 03-18-2013 at 04:58 AM. |
||||||
|
|
|
|
|
#152 | ||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,567
|
3. The targeted killing policy is the best of all worst options for two reasons. One: The United States does not have a coherent and legitimate capture and detention policy. (Thank the CIA torture program, Abu Ghraib, Congress, and the Obama administration's weak efforts to create one.) Two: Human intelligence collection has atrophied to the point where there are not enough people on the ground to facilitate the capture and detention of wanted targets.
Ambinder's argument for this is: Quote:
NB: I don't agree that we are totally hopeless in putting boots on the ground (UBL as a case in point). BUT, "Son Tay" Ops are tricky - as that op proved - see McRaven, Spec Ops: Case Studies in Special Operations Warfare; Theory and Practice (1997; well before he became famous). That brings us to Ambinder's last point. 4. Al Qaeda core has not successfully pulled off a plot against the West since 2005, according to Peter Bergen. Ambinder's argument for this is: Quote:
I've never really bought the "fight them there" argument in full - or "1% possibility" arguments, for that matter. So, I do tend to Ambinder's views on Astan and Pstan. But then, I also have a Worldview that would require a much more restricted geographic scope for US force projection, except in very exigent situations. Regards Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. Last edited by jmm99; 03-18-2013 at 05:03 AM. |
||
|
|
|
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Rules on Use of Quotations | Pete | Small Wars Council / Journal | 11 | 02-14-2010 06:46 PM |
| Rules of Engagement for Conscience and Sense | SWJED | US Policy, Interest, and Endgame | 16 | 02-07-2007 02:37 AM |
| Twentieth-century Rules Will Not Win a 21st-century War | SWJED | Futurists & Theorists | 0 | 04-08-2006 09:09 AM |