Of Mice and Men: Gangs, Narco-Terrorism, and the USA

[jmm99]

Ken's comments and caveats are most likely original, but they follow (precede ?) Saul Alinsky's Reveille for Radicals (and his other stuff too) on community organizing. I suppose many to the right of the political spectrum have tended to ignore Saul Alinsky because of his personal political views - leftist.

The techniques are useful regardless of whether one is an insurgent or a counter-insurgent (e.g., setting up a community organization a la Galula or Trinquier). So, a book worth finding.

Interestingly, Hillary Clinton wrote her senior thesis on Alinsky; was offered a job with him, bur rejected it. She concluded in her thesis that his approach was too local and too slow - we needed a big government solution. PE Obama seems to have gone the other way and tied in with the Alinsky Chicago tradition.

PS - Mike. Thinking about the nasty situations described by you and Ted, organizing the community against the gangs (assuming they have effective control) would seem more akin to being an insugent with external support and sanctuary areas (the police and the "safe areas").

[Bill Moore]

MikeF, I was asked to present some classes on COIN to a police department that had some troubling crime trends, but operations tempo and good ole Army bureaucracy prevented a formal exchange of information. It all started in an attempt to get information from the police on how they conduct counter gang operations, so we could apply those tactics in Iraq if applicable. It became apparent during the coordination phase we could learn a lot from each other, because while they were talented and experienced, I saw that very basic tactics and procedures weren't being implemented that would have helped (they would have been perfectly legal).

Part of that was a result of what Jedburgh addressed about tactics being driven by statistics (to justify funding), not because they were the right thing to do. Um? Sounds a lot like military operations.

Counterinsurgency students would tell you to focus on local solutions, and of course the police have attempted to do that with neighborhood watches, increasing ethnic diversity in their forces, etc. Taking it to the extreme, such as with the son's of Iraq, well I don't think America needs or is ready for armed vigilantes yet. They would further undermine the moral fabric of our society. However, if the conditions continue to worsen you may see the raise of vigilantes, which will eventually become gangs in their own right. I think you have to be aggressive, but you stay within the confines of the law. I know no one was suggesting otherwise, just making a point.

America is different from many traditional societies where we have been involved in counterinsurgencies, and one of those differences is that American society is now largely composed of smaller families that can and do move frequently to pursue better economic opportunities, and in some location you have a large percentage of recent immigrants, which may mean that local solutions are not as applicable as they may have been in Vietnam where a person was generally deeply rooted to his home village and family. I doubt they would have a high degree of motivation to defend their towns, since it is easier to relocate if they have the means.

Furthermore, I suspect that this frequent dislocation actually contributes to the problem. Folks, especially the teens are looking belong to something, self worth, etc., and a gang provides that sense of family and self worth that they may not get elsewhere. Just a random thought, and even if it is true, I'm not sure it gets us any closer to solving the problem at hand.

[slapout9]

Hybrid Gangs...scary!

http://www.nagia.org/Gang%20Articles/Hybrid%20Gangs.htm

[MikeF]

Thinking about the nasty situations described by you and Ted, organizing the community against the gangs (assuming they have effective control) would seem more akin to being an insugent with external support and sanctuary areas (the police and the "safe areas").

Word. True dat.

First of all, thank you for your comments and emails. I've yet to commit emotionally or physically to this problem. I suppose that I'm conducting an assessment. Several LG and LE officials came to us for some help. I'm trying to determine the parameters of how I can and want to help. As I began researching, I was struck by the similarities I saw from my own combat experiences. It is quite plausible I was simply naive and oblivious prior to actually fighting to win the nations wars...Regardless, I was intrigued by this perceived gang-problem, and I'm trying to consider how to help if I choose to...Moreover, I thought this particular case-study would be a good discussion point for SWJ.

I'll start with Bill's comments:

Counterinsurgency students would tell you to focus on local solutions, and of course the police have attempted to do that with neighborhood watches, increasing ethnic diversity in their forces, etc.

I'm gonna have to disgree with you on this...I don't see a gang problem with a local solution. From my initial research, I believe the gang issues are simply symptoms of the larger social, economic, and political problems.

As Slap suggested,

LE can not solve the gang problem....they can surpress it, but they can not solve it.

I recall reading (Galula in the 1962 Rand Symposium?) that the proverbial change must be simultaneously bottom-up and top-down.

Anyways, I've gotta give some more thought to the other comments, but I thought we could start there. As with my adapted Kilcullen quote, I think that Salinas is more akin to Afghanistan than Iraq. Regardless, it is something that we will eventually have to deal with.

Again, I'd like to thank y'all for your thoughts and comments...

Keep em coming....We may all learn something

v/r

Mike

[slapout9]

MikeF, this is real close to how I was taught. This was posted awhile back by SGMGRUMPY. Well worth the read.

http://www.sandiego.gov/gangcommissi...bernardino.pdf

[ODB]

In that wrongly wired portion of my brain I have my own thoughts on ending gangs very quickly. Small group of well armed men with big balls. Put us in the worse part of town, walk up to the first gang member you spot and shoot him in the face. Then follow that up with an ambush at his funeral where you eliminate the rest of them in one quick swoop. Suddenly they would get the hint we aren't playing and would quickly change their ways. Play the game they know.

Seriously though it needs to be a multi dimensional approach, IMO it starts with the adults, the parents and spreads from there.

[reed11b]

This is an unpopular opinion, but as I sit in the youth crisis shelter office and watch the kids idolize the "rappers" on TV that sell nothing but materialism and glorification of petty violence for the sake of petty violence, I can't help but think that finding a way to de-power these so-called artists would help greatly.
Reed