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Old 03-29-2012   #1
omarali50
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Default India's military (catch all)

Moderator's Note

This thread has been renamed India's military (catch all) and a small number of threads have been merged in (ends).


But not for the best of reasons.

http://www.brownpundits.com/the-indi...t-in-the-news/

excerpts:
Quote:
"...Optimists must have hoped that Indian civilian traditions will improve faster than British-Indian military traditions decay and one day the trends will meet happily in the positive region of the graph. So how is that going?
...I would say the odds are in favor of the fuss blowing over and settling down. And life (and India) will go on. But for the sake of argument, let us assume this is a symptom of serious internal decay and not just one chief and one defense minister who don’t know what an unholy mess they are making here (and one weak PM who cannot seem to get it under control). What if this gets worse?
Indians can comment on what it means for them, but for Pakistanis, it will not be good news...

Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-16-2015 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Fix quote and add Mods note
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Old 03-30-2012   #2
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Governance, please

With the Hon’ble PM and the Hon’ble RM, both very good men, I share Lord Halifax’s sneeringly patrician remark: “State craft is a cruel business, good nature is a bungler at it”.

Believe me, my good sirs, the nation is weary of your “good nature,” we crave for “good governance.” Can you now, please, for a change do just that?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/go...lease/929622/0
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Old 03-31-2012   #3
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Default To Leave Or Not To Leave – Controversy of Indian Army Chief Retirement

A detailed background essay by SWC contributor Hamid Hussain is attached.
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File Type: doc HamidIndian.doc (66.0 KB, 702 views)
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Old 03-31-2012   #4
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Quite a find!

Thanks.
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Old 03-31-2012   #5
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Ray,

As one of our Indian members I hope you can add your comments!

Reading Hamid's essay I was reminded of how the British Army conducted itself in the early years of Queen Victoria.
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Old 04-01-2012   #6
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Default Hamid adds some points

In response to comments - made by others visiting SWC - a short amendment is attached.
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File Type: doc Hamid2.doc (31.0 KB, 224 views)
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Old 04-02-2012   #7
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Quote:
On the other hand to my knowledge the army has promoted all officers to both command and staff positions essentially discarding the previous policy of having two separate cadres.

The separation of the cadres is still in vogue as I know.

Further, one joins the Army to command and not to push files.

Therefore, it is a silly policy to segregate officers in a Command stream and a Staff Only stream.

This was originally enforced by Gen Rodriguez. A most unimaginative policy.

Rodriguez and Deepak Kappor are both Artillery Officers and this policy assists in ensuring the promotion path of favourites cleared of those who could be a challenge if there was only one stream to select from.

Last edited by Ray; 04-02-2012 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 04-02-2012   #8
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Quote:
The real story starts with two previous Chiefs of Army Staff attempting to clear the line of succession. In 2006, VK Singh was the Chief of Staff (COS) of a Corps in Northern Command and was ready to take over the command of Ambala based II Corps. Then COAS General Jogindar Jaswant Singh (9 Marhatta Light Infantry) insisted that V K Singh accept 1950 as his year of birth. The reason was that JJ Singh wanted a shortened tenure of VK Singh ending in 2012 thus ensuring elevation of a fellow Sikh Lieutenant General Bikram Singh as next COAS.
If this is true, it is a sad commentary.

It is possible that such a thing may have occurred. JJ Singh has always been a bit of dodgy character.

JJ Singh has been rewarded with a Governorship by the Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh.

JJ is such a 'effective' chap that he did not even know, inspite of being a Governor, if the State's Chief Minister's (CM) helicopter had crashed or not! His waffling embarrassed the Govt when it was realised that not only the helicopter had crashed but also that the CM had died in that crash!

Last edited by Ray; 04-02-2012 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 04-03-2012   #9
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addendum now added to our site: http://www.brownpundits.com/update-i...-chief-affair/
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Old 04-04-2012   #10
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The Indian Express has added some more farcical elements.

http://www.brownpundits.com/the-indi...t-in-the-news/
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Old 04-04-2012   #11
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It has been debunked as sensationalism.

During annual inspection, mobilisation is checked and that is what happened.

If the Army had any ideas out of the loop, there was two brigades in Delhi, the 26,000 troops for the Republic Day Parade with every single equipment, and one Division just one hour or less from Delhi.

It is the desire of the arms lobby to discredit the Chief and the Army since he has gone hard on the nexus.

May read:



http://www.sunday-guardian.com/inves...fanEEy.twitter

The Indian Army is too wedded to the concept of Democracy to replicate neighbours and then be blamed for ruining the country!
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Old 04-04-2012   #12
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I am not worried about the Indian army doing a coup. I am worried about what this sad business tells us about the Indian ruling elite. If they go down, we probably go down with them..see my comments in the link above.
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Old 04-04-2012   #13
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It is indeed sad the way the Indian Govt is meandering like a rudderless boat.

However, the solid democratic foundations will carry it through as it has always done in every crisis!

We have survived Nehru and 1962. A near similar thing happened with Gen Thimayya.

I have faith in the Indian democratic ideals and so nothing worries me!

Last edited by Ray; 04-04-2012 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012   #14
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Default Clearing the fog

A BBC commentary by an Indian defence analyst which makes interesting reading and comes with some surprises, notably this:
Quote:
The influential Indian Express newspaper on Wednesday reported that in mid-January two army units, including a Special Forces battalion, had marched on New Delhi without telling the proper authorities. For 18 hours it reportedly panicked the government...Gen Singh rejected the news report as an "absolutely stupid" reaction to a regular manoeuvre - for which no prior intimation to the federal authorities was necessary - to test the readiness of key units to mobilise swiftly for emergency deployment in foggy conditions, usually prevalent in northern India during winter.
Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17635618
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Old 04-10-2012   #15
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This has been rubbished by the Govt, Defence Minister, Defence Secretary and the Chief.

It was a routine exercise of two battalions.

If any coup was to be conducted, there is one Brigade already in Delhi, apart from AD Brigade and one Div at Meerut (15,000 men) just 45 minutes away.

In addition, the Army Day was 15 Jan and Republic Day on 26 Jan. There were units and all important weapons that were to take part. They were present in Delhi.

Therefore, why should a coup be engineered with two battalions when a large element is already present in Delhi and one huge one 45 minutes away from Delhi?

The arms lobby is up in arms against the Defence Minister, who is said to be a clean man, and who has blacklisted many firms for attempting to bribe officials. Apart from that, there are those who wish to drive a rift between the Army and the Govt since they want the Defence Minister out as he is a stumbling block to their agenda.

Last edited by Ray; 04-10-2012 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 06-11-2012   #16
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Default Indian Army’s unpaid spy dies in oblivion

Quote:
Indian Army’s unpaid spy dies in oblivion
British-born Sydney Wignall discovered the secrets of China’s expansion across Tibet to the borders of India and Nepal


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/n...p?newsid=18790
We salute these bravehearts!
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Old 06-01-2014   #17
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Default Operation Blue Star

Hamid Hussain, a US-based analyst and historian, who contributes sometimes here and on SWJ, has written a long review paper on this operation. I had forgotten how divisive this action was within the Indian Army and the slim bios of some will surprise you.

He opens with:
Quote:
The 5th June is the thirty year anniversary of the Indian army operation to clear militants from the Sikh religion’s holiest temple in Amritsar. This was the culmination of chain of events simmering for several years. In late 1970s, conflict between center and Punjab, internal power struggle among Sikh political elite, poor economic conditions of rural Punjab and assertion of Nirankaris (a sect of Sikhism considered heretic by orthodox Sikhs) resulted in rapid escalation of violence in Punjab. In early 1980s, Sikh agitation took an ugly turn and a group of militant Sikhs under the leadership of a charismatic leader Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale upped the ante. In December 1983, fearing arrest, Bhindranwala with few hundred armed supporters moved into the Golden Temple complex. Armed militants occupied many buildings of the Golden temple complex. Many wanted militants found refuge in the temple and in April 1983, in an audacious move militants shot dead a police Deputy Inspector General (DIG) Avtar Singh Atwal inside the temple. Several police officers including Inspector Bicchu Ram and Deputy Superintendent Police (DSP) Gurbachan Singh were also assassinated by militants. In June 1984, Indian government decided to send troops to the Golden Temple complex to clear it out of militants. After a bloody fight, temple was cleared resulting in heavy casualties.
The attachment is available via PM, being fourteen pages it is too large to add here.

For those who prefer the visual image:
Quote:
Kanwar Sandhu’s documentary about Operation Blue Star released in 2013 is a detailed analysis of the operation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhO5BRsTfl8
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Old 06-02-2014   #18
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The full text is also posted on our blog (brownpundits.com)

http://brownpundits.blogspot.com/201...-bluestar.html
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Old 06-05-2014   #19
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As reported in 'The Indian Express' on May 8 by Consulting Editor Seema Chishti, the book goes on to say: "It is inconceiveable that they could have done so without Indira Gandhi's consent. Sanjay and Zail Singh believed that by advocating extremist causes the young preacher would embarrass the Akali Dal. Precisely, the reverse happened. Bhindranwale soon turned into a classic Frankenstein's monster and embarked upon devouring his creators."

"Dirty politics and the use of religion for political ends clearly boomeranged on the Akali and Congress leadership with disastrous consequences for the Sikh community and the Indian state" the book says commenting on the situation in the aftermath of the Operation Blue Star.

Noting that Congress emerged as the single largest party in the state assembly in the 1972 elections and formed a government headed by Zail Singh, the book says, "by introducing a religious tone to Punjab politics, Giani succeeded to a great extent in weakening the Akalis. But the result--growing communalisation of provincial politics—was disastrous."

The book notes that Zail Singh organised one of the biggest religious processions "in order to secure Sikh votes for Congress".
http://archive.indianexpress.com/new...s-book/797608/
The whole mess of Punjab was the result of political oneupmanship that went out of control.

May also see this for a more detailed summary of the issues that led to Op Bluestar:

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/public...falsehood4.htm

Last edited by Ray; 06-05-2014 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 06-06-2014   #20
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The widely respcted, former BBC India correspondent, Mark Tully gives his own memories of the time and reflects on what has happened since:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-disaster.html
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