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Old 03-13-2011   #21
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Default 50 years of conflict: The Silent War

I missed the radio story and caught this article on the insurgency in North East India:
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For about 50 years, the Indian police and army have been battling separatist insurgents in the north-eastern state of Manipur, a conflict which human rights groups claim leaves at least 500 women widowed each year.
Link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/9421267.stm

The main report is on:http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/do...lent_war.shtml
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Old 03-13-2011   #22
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Default 50 years of conflict: The Silent War

I missed the radio story and caught this article on the insurgency in North East India:
Quote:
For about 50 years, the Indian police and army have been battling separatist insurgents in the north-eastern state of Manipur, a conflict which human rights groups claim leaves at least 500 women widowed each year.
Link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/9421267.stm

The main report is on:http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/do...lent_war.shtml
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Old 03-24-2011   #23
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Naxalism is the result of the failed policies of the Indian National Congress party which ruled India most of the time since independence in 1947. They introduced some laws and acts which were socialism inspired like Jamindari Act and Chakbandi Act which abolished Jamindari practice ( literal meaning land owners ). Jamindars were Upper Class Hindu and Muslim families generally related to the ruling Royal families of their respective states or are on good terms with British Raj holding most of the land in their villages. It was strictly implemented in most of the country but not in some remote tribal areas.

The result was that tribals were denied the land which constitutionally belonged to them and were oppressed by upper caste Hindus. Since, no other political party was capable of challenging Congress on national level, they ruled the way they wanted ignoring problems and further more by playing dirty vote bank politics. Communist leaders decided to oppose and they failed miserably when they contested for elections because of the lack of support from most of the tribals except in West Bengal which was a strong hold of Communism.

A movement which was started to provide justice to tribals lost it's genuineness as soon as CPI(Maoist) lost the elections fair and square and took the arms to "liberate" the tribals. So, even today you will find Naxalite propaganda machine telling the tribals all sorts of lies like Government is building roads so that can reach you to kill you, illegal mining and abducting teachers and other civil servants just to keep tribals the way they are i.e innocent and uneducated and if not then a bullet in the head.

They are losing this war and their popularity among the tribals since the government has started programs to get rid of headache and proper development of these areas is on it's way.

There is another misconception that a large number of districts in India is affected by Naxalism. A Naxalite arms factory was discovered at the heart of the city Bhopal barely 500 m from my home but it doesn't mean that the city is Naxalite infected as we never had any casualty in the last 40 years. Technically it is but practically not.

You can compare it with the Times Square incident, yes someone tried to detonate a bomb but it doesn't mean that NY is terrorism infected.
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Old 03-24-2011   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
Well, if one were to apply The Jones Insurgency Model (shameless plug acknowledged) to the Governance / Populace dynamics of India, as well as China; that in the long run the U.S. has little to worry about either of these emerging economic powerhouses achieving their full potential.

They are quite likely doomed to devolve into debilitating insurgencies as the gap widens between the haves and have nots; exacerbating the four causal factors of Poor Governance.
If you compare present day India with US in the 1850-60s we are doing way much better if we consider the time when 60 years have passed since they got their independence.
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Old 04-06-2011   #25
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If I may give another perspective to Insurgencies in India.

Contrary to the popular belief, democracy has been not been introduced to India by the West nor was or is alien to India. It has been functioning in the ancient times (Ram Rajya). Ram Rajya aimed at transparency in public affairs, sanctity of contract and accountability to people; in short, the dharma of good governance.


That apart, owing to the tribal/ insular community structure, the activities of governance emanated from the village level (panchayati raj). This practice is still followed, but in the present environment, is enmeshed in politics and village rivalries.

Historically, owing to various conquest, this Ram Rajya faded at the highest level of governance since governance was at the whims of the Conqueror, it nevertheless continued to flourish at the village level. Even, the Zamindari system pf British India was village or district oriented, even if not the ideal form of Ram Rajya or Panchayati Raj.

Therefore, notwithstanding the conquests and the governance pattern of the rulers. the importance of the village, their tribal/ community loyalties/ the writ of their leaders remained an important aspect of Indian governance matrix and its role in shaping the destiny of the area.

Rewinding to the present, in the tribal and remote areas, the writ of the State government or the Union (Federal) government is evident more in default than in practice. Therefore, the village heads, more or less, decides the fate of the villages.

Left to their means without cognizable government presence and activities, the people of the tribal/ remote areas, felt alienated and could perceive the neglect. In this void, vested interests (be they political or religious) played their part. They not only assisted in solving the individual's or the communities problems but also contributed to the development, even if marginal, of these tribal/ remote areas. The Caste system worked in the favour of both the religious and the political organisers since they broke down this barrier and gave the people an equality that they had never believed existed! This was 'powerful medicine'!!

These vested interests, because of their yeoman activities, including giving the tribal or neglected people, a meaning to life and ambition, endeared themselves to the people of the villages and the area. The official government, for good reasons, became non existent as far as these people were concerned. It mattered little to the rare petty official of the Government, who may have been stationed there, or who came a visiting as a part of his duty.

Having become a force to reckon with, these vested interests pursued their agenda, Having proved the lack of interest mainstream India had for the neglected people of the area, were able to indoctrinate them with a new 'identity' (at places based on religion and separate ethnic root, and at place, based on a social and political root).

These 'separatisms' starting as small movements. It caught the imagination of many like bushfire by those who felt that they were deprived and it finally such movements rode rough into large movements culminating in insurgencies.

The above is but a very broad template. Notwithstanding, each insurgency has its own chemistry within this broad framework.
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Old 09-26-2011   #26
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Default So many lessons id'd, so few implemented

An Indian article reflecting on the long identified threat from Maoist insurgency and what has not been done:http://www.sunday-guardian.com/analy...-maoist-menace

Not that these factors do not exist elsewhere.

Ends with:
Quote:
Government conferences or National Security Advisory Board deliberations will not work since they do not have grassroots knowledge.
Which is a reminder that SWC has a part to play, assuming those way above read here.
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Old 09-27-2011   #27
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Default An Indian perspective on regional COIN

A SWJ article 'Countering Insurgency In South Asia: Three Approaches', which is wide-ranging and worth a read, if not study:http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art...ree-approaches
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Old 10-09-2011   #28
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Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
A SWJ article 'Countering Insurgency In South Asia: Three Approaches', which is wide-ranging and worth a read, if not study:http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art...ree-approaches
A very well written and analysed article.

It analyses the Indian, US and Pakistani approaches and initiative in LIC/ COIN rather well.

Indeed, it is worth a look by those who observe the Afghanistan case both academically as also hands on.
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Old 10-09-2011   #29
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In continuation to the post in which Blueblood has correctly mentioned about Naxalism and the causes, it is worth noting that feudalism was still prevalent in some place. In fact, in India’s ‘cow belt’, which includes UP, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh, a very mild form and even impotent, still struggles to remain relevant with an equal backlash, at times, violent.

Thanks to the abolition of the Zamindari Act, Bhoodan Movement and the West Bengal (a state that has 23 years plus of governance) agrarian reforms, there has been an awakening of the peasants and tillers of the land of the exploitation that came into being because of the Permanent Settlement enacted by Lord Cornwallis, leading to absentee Landlordism. This is what the root of the peasant unrest is, amongst other causes as given by Blueblood.

With NGOs funded by foreign funds and it being fashionable to spout western liberalism, there has been an unprecedented growth of bleeding hearts of all hues, western (mostly leftist) and genuine leftist (sponsored by left organisation having links with left countries). Therefore, anything that is done for economic progress is taken to be anti people. To be true, India’s natural resources are untapped in areas where ingress has been difficult and was never exploited by either the British or the post independent Indian govts. These areas are inhabited by the deprived and the tribals ( a large majority being Christians supported by evangelist churches). It maybe noted that the even the first of the insurgencies i.e. NE has been foundationed by the Church. Their is a belief in India that this was CIA inspired since at that time, the US was not quite amenable to India!!

With the economic development essential for India, it has become necessary to prospect in areas that are untapped and yet lucrative as per surveys. However, this would upset forest lands and where tribal live. It is an ideal cause for environmentalists and ‘human rights’ organisations, mostly funded by vested foreign powers to ensure that the progress of India is halted in its tracks for obvious reasons, given that there is already one economic power that is causing problems, as also for the rising power, to ensure that none other rises!!

At the same time, there is no doubt that the exploitation would affect lives and their way of life of many.

It is a Catch 22 situation.

Last edited by Ray; 10-09-2011 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 10-09-2011   #30
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Originally Posted by Ray View Post
It is an ideal cause for environmentalists and ‘human rights’ organisations, mostly funded by vested foreign powers to ensure that the progress of India is halted in its tracks for obvious reasons, given that there is already one economic power that is causing problems, as also for the rising power, to ensure that none other rises!!
Any evidence that environmental/human rights groups are being funded by Western powers with the aim of stopping Indian progress? It seems pretty farfetched to me, and the US certainly has no reason to want to stop India - or for that matter China - from making economic progress.

The environmental and human rights issues exist, and people are involved in them for a wide variety of reasons. I happen to live in a tribal area with rich mineral deposits, and the community I live in would be obliterated if "progress" got round to digging us up, so I'm not at all averse to seeing folks local and foreign throwing kinks into that particular type of "progress"... looking at what's happened elsewhere, the degree of progress involved is quite debatable.
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Old 11-26-2011   #31
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West Bengal's top Maoist leader Koteshwar Rao alias Kishenji has been killed in a gunbattle with security forces in Burishol in Lalgarh, West Midnapore, sources in the state police have said.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/to...forces/880038/

This guy has been running the show for the last three decades. COBRA guys finally nailed him.
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Old 11-26-2011   #32
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http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...e1-773671.aspx

In a major setback to the Garo National Liberation Army (GNLA), its top leader Champion R Sangma has been detained in Bangladesh and is likely to be handed over to India soon, a police official on Thursday.
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Old 11-26-2011   #33
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Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
Any evidence that environmental/human rights groups are being funded by Western powers with the aim of stopping Indian progress? It seems pretty farfetched to me, and the US certainly has no reason to want to stop India - or for that matter China - from making economic progress.

The environmental and human rights issues exist, and people are involved in them for a wide variety of reasons. I happen to live in a tribal area with rich mineral deposits, and the community I live in would be obliterated if "progress" got round to digging us up, so I'm not at all averse to seeing folks local and foreign throwing kinks into that particular type of "progress"... looking at what's happened elsewhere, the degree of progress involved is quite debatable.
This is how it works in India. The likes of Medha Patkar, a renowned social activist reaches out to the people who are supposed to be affected by the building of a dam or a power plant. She stages protests, meanwhile encouraging people to build as much as they can on the said land. I've seen people creating three story buildings within two weeks of government declaring the project.

The project gets delayed for the jibber-jabber of the compensation meanwhile the country or the institution that financed the project enjoys a hefty interest. It doesn't exactly takes a rocket scientist to figure out who is hitting the jack pot here.

For the naxalites, it a different game, they are against the government because it neglected them. So, now when the government is trying to make up for it, they will blow up railway lines, kill government officials and school teachers and again claim that government is doing nothing to help the tribals.

If the tribals do get educated, their will be no innocent village folk to revere the didi (older sister) or dada (older brother), as the naxals project themselves to be.
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Old 11-26-2011   #34
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Quote:
Crackdown on anti-national NGOs
28 Sep 2011, 0937 hrs IST
It's a shocking case of anti-national outfits posing as NGOs across the country. TIMES NOW has accessed intelligence documents listing over a hundred NGOs, which are not only violating rules but funding terrorists.
http://www.timesnow.tv/Crackdown-on-...ow/4385125.cms
Quote:
Foreign Funding for
NGOs Under Review
A huge advertisement in the leading national daily 'Indian Express', Friday, accused famous NBA leader Medha Patkar of sustaining her campaign with the help of foreign money received through illegal channels.
Quote:
Role of the Church and Insurgency
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0508/105.html
It is not for me to judge.

The Home Ministry has now declared that all NGOs will have to declare the source of their funds if they come from abroad.
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Old 11-26-2011   #35
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The project gets delayed for the jibber-jabber of the compensation meanwhile the country or the institution that financed the project enjoys a hefty interest. It doesn't exactly takes a rocket scientist to figure out who is hitting the jack pot here.
It was suggested above that foreign governments are funding these movements to obstruct India's development. here it seems to be suggested that foreign financing organizations are underhandedly paying to obstruct the same projects they finance in able to gain higher interest payments. That all sounds, honestly, very conspiratorial and very improbable. I have no doubt that these movements get funding from overseas, but it's most likely simply form individuals and groups that support their agenda. It's not hard to get funding support from environmental/social movements in the west for opposition to a dam or a mine.

I'm personally glad that's the case... as stated above, I live in a place where tribal people have had to constantly resist, by means up to and including insurgency, efforts to displace them to make way for dams, mines, and logging. Those efforts have succeeded, with foreign support helping. After all, if it's reasonable for the government to seek foreign financing to build a dam, surely it's equally reasonable for the people who will be displaced to seek foreign support in their efforts to resist the project.

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Originally Posted by blueblood View Post
If the tribals do get educated, their will be no innocent village folk to revere the didi (older sister) or dada (older brother), as the naxals project themselves to be.
If experience in my area is anything to judge by, educating the tribal people will make resistance to externally imposed "development" more vigorous and more aggressive.

Support for the NPA (New People's Army, local equivalent of the Naxals) has steadily degraded in my area since the government stopped pushing projects that would displace communities and effectively destroy the local way of life. Today the NPA in this area is a marginal presence and no significant threat. If people fight back when you push them around, you might try not pushing them around.
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Old 11-27-2011   #36
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Agreed that India maybe paranoid.

Quote:
NGOs a Cover for Spying in Russia

U.S., British and other foreign nongovermental organizations are providing cover for professional spies in Russia, while Western organizations are bankrolling plans to stage peaceful revolutions in Belarus and other former Soviet republics bordering Russia, Federal Security Service director Nikolai Patrushev told the State Duma on Thursday.

Patrushev said the FSB has monitored and exposed intelligence gathering activities carried out by the U.S. Peace Corps, the British-based Merlin medical relief charity, Kuwait's Society of Social Reforms and the Saudi Red Crescent Society.

He said foreign secret services rely on NGOs to collect information and promote the interests of their countries.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...ext=va&aid=139
Quote:
Kazakhstan: What is Behind the Peace Corps Pullout?
http://kazworld.info/?p=17976
Quote:
On Nov. 5, 2007, Fulbright scholar John Alexander van Schaick arrived at the U.S. Embassy for what was to be a routine orientation meeting before beginning his year-long research project. But he was taken aback when, during his one-on-one security briefing, he says security officer Cooper asked him provide information to the embassy on Cubans and Venezuelans he comes across during his field work. The incident matches accounts by Peace Corps volunteers and staff that on July 29, 2007, Cooper instructed 30 new volunteers to do the same, with respect to Cuban nationals.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?...1#.TtIB0fLex2A
Peace Corps was a good tool for espionage, like it or not.

Only a country that does not know their onions will spend millions and not use all tools to ensure that the country targeted does not become pro that country. No country would subscribe to the adage - A Fool and His Money is Soon Parted, for that country would indeed be a Fool!

Quote:
The use of espionage dates back well into ancient history. The Hebrew Bible describes the Hebrews' use of espionage in the Book of Joshua with the story of Rahab, a prostitute who harbored two Hebrew spies. Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs and papyri describe the existence of court spies. Spies were also prevalent in the Greek and Roman empires. In Asia, the importance of deception and subversion were discussed by Chinese military tactician Sun Tzu around 500 B.C.E. in his famous work The Art of War. Two hundred years later, the prime minister of India wrote the Arthashastra, a treatise on government well known for its discussion of the use of espionage. Ninjas were often employed as mercenary spies in feudal Japan, and were known for their skill at infiltrating the enemy. In Europe during the Middle Ages, espionage played a large role in both The Crusades and the Inquisition. During the Renaissance, the political philosopher Niccolo Machiavelli strongly advocated the use of espionage by the ruling class. Elizabethan England was known for the effectiveness of its espionage system, which employed linguists, scholars, and scientists.[1]

From the eighteenth century onwards, espionage gained even more importance. Industrialization, colonialism, and complicated world politics all fueled the quest for information. Informants during the French Revolution were used to track down traitors for trial and execution. Colonial governments used espionage to quell uprisings.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Espionage
Quote:
Sources may be neutral, friendly, or hostile, and may or may not be witting of their involvement in the collection of information. "Witting" is a term of intelligence art that indicates that one is not only aware of a fact or piece of information, but also aware of its connection to intelligence activities. Examples of HUMINT sources include, but are not limited to, the following:

Advisors or foreign internal defense (FID) personnel working with host nation (HN) forces or populations
Diplomatic reporting by accredited diplomats (e.g., military attachés);
Espionage clandestine reporting, access agents, couriers, cutouts;
Military attachés
Non-governmental organizations (NGOs);
Prisoners of war (POWs) or detainees;
Refugees;
Routine patrolling (military police, patrols, etc.)
Special reconnaissance
Traveler debriefing (e.g., CIA Domestic Contact Service)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_i...28espionage%29
Also
http://insider-magazine.org/ChristianMafia.htm

http://www.marxists.org/subject/afri...alism/ch01.htm

It would be naive to believe that in international politics and oneupmanship all is above board and ethical!

If all were hunky dory, ethical and morally above board, then second or third generation Muslims would not go berserk and bomb the country of their birth under the guidance of the country of their parents and grandparents origin!

While one may not take these at face value, yet there is no smoke without fire.

and no one is Jesus, either.

Last edited by Ray; 11-27-2011 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 11-28-2011   #37
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Default Whoa...

I'm not sure how any of the above relates to the matter under discussion, but...

Global Research is a known fringe nut-job conspiracy site, and its credibility is something less than zero.

I'm not in a position to know why the Peace Corps pulled out of Kazakhstan, but a fast and complete pullout is usually a result of a real or suspected threat to volunteer safety.

The Peace Corps is actually a pretty useless tool for espionage. Volunteers and staff are typically well to the left side of the political spectrum, quite allergic to anything even vaguely resembling military or intelligence involvement, and are likely to howl to the media at the first hint of an approach... as that complete ass in Bolivia who tried an approach discovered to his chagrin. It would certainly be possible to insert an agent without the knowledge of the staff of other volunteers, but as anyone who's been a volunteer or has been close to the organization knows, it wouldn't be a very useful cover.

It would be silly to deny that espionage takes place, but it's equally silly to attribute all one sees to espionage, especially when far more likely explanations are at hand.
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Old 11-28-2011   #38
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Default The Peace Corps - not part of CIA

Ray:

The Peace Corps was somewhat "submerged" between 1971-1981; but its independence was assured by this fighting lady - who died far too young so far as her family and friends were concerned. Her daughter Adele is presently with DoS.

Regards

Mike
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Old 11-29-2011   #39
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JMM,

I posted links of what is felt around the parts.

Personally, I know many Peace Corps workers did real good work.

In fact, IIRC when I quoted the Ugly American, I did say that organisations like the Peace Corps did some yeoman's work to change the perception about the US.

It is known that ideal organisations where one can park human resources intelligence assets are organisations which appear benign and work unhindered with the people and can travel without raising suspicion. NGOs, religious organisations, news agencies etc are known to be areas where agents are parked, apart from other organisations.
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Old 11-29-2011   #40
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I posted links of what is felt around the parts.
If you're dealing with local perception, then yes, every PCV, missionary, NGO Worker etc is a CIA agent. When I was in the Peace Corps (many many years ago) it was simply taken for granted that we had something to do with the CIA. Of course it didn't make sense, but people believed it anyway: people believe all kinds of stuff.

Quote:
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It is known that ideal organisations where one can park human resources intelligence assets are organisations which appear benign and work unhindered with the people and can travel without raising suspicion. NGOs, religious organisations, news agencies etc are known to be areas where agents are parked, apart from other organisations.
Anyone actually familiar with the way the Peace Corps works (and the way the CIA works) will see immediately that PCV cover would be far from ideal - in fact close to useless - for an intelligence operation. Of course that reality will not affect perceptions at all.
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