SMALL WARS COUNCIL
Go Back   Small Wars Council > Conflicts -- Current & Future > Other, By Region > Africa

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2008   #21
Jedburgh
Council Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,097
Default

SWP Comments, 19 Feb 08: The Chad Crisis and Operation EUFOR Chad/CAR
Quote:
Recent fighting between three rebel groups and the Chadian army calls into question the deployment and purpose of Operation EUFOR Chad/CAR, which the Council of the European Union launched on 15 October 2007. The escalation of violence and open French political and military support for the authoritarian regime of President Idriss Déby have fundamentally changed the political circumstances under which the EU operation will be deployed. Therefore, the EU should re-examine EUFOR's underlying purposes. It should also consider abandoning the entire operation.....
Jedburgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2008   #22
davidbfpo
Council Member
 
davidbfpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 10,641
Default Armchair views vindicated?

Quote:

'If the civil war remains a new high level - what will the French reaction be? Limited to protection of French and other nationals? Secondly the EU intervention, planned to be based in Eastern Chad on the Darfur border, will disappear, far too dangerous for EU members, let alone logistics. With a knock-on effect on the Darfur intervention (EU, AU & UN). Wily Sudanese win again.

Nice to know my armchair viewpoint two weeks ago had some good points.

davidbfpo
davidbfpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2008   #23
Uboat509
Council Member
 
Uboat509's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 681
Default

Am I way off base here or is not sending peace keepers in because fighting has broken out a bit like not sending police in because crimes are being comitted?

SFC W
Uboat509 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2008   #24
Ron Humphrey
Council Member
 
Ron Humphrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,099
Post That Said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uboat509 View Post
Am I way off base here or is not sending peace keepers in because fighting has broken out a bit like not sending police in because crimes are being comitted?

SFC W
Would we really expect anything different?
Ron Humphrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2008   #25
davidbfpo
Council Member
 
davidbfpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 10,641
Default The right force for the mission

As a police officer I would expect to be properly equipped and given clear directions if being sent to a live, violent crime incident. Despatching a police unit to for example a riot without the right equipment is dangerous, if not foolhardy.

I understand that most peacekeepers expect to keep the peace, using a variety of well-documented methods and that bloodshed is minimised. Sending a lightly-armed peacekeeping contingent to Chad would be dangerous for those involved. Peace enforcement is a different mission.

I have little doubt that few national governments would allocate forces to Chad if it was high-risk and bloodshed likely. No-one wants to see a repeat of what happened in Rwanda.

There are a small number of UN contributors who have been prepared to be robust and risk casualties.

If anyone wants to volunteer their nation for the Chad mission step forward.

davidbfpo
davidbfpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2008   #26
Ron Humphrey
Council Member
 
Ron Humphrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,099
Post Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
As a police officer I would expect to be properly equipped and given clear directions if being sent to a live, violent crime incident. Despatching a police unit to for example a riot without the right equipment is dangerous, if not foolhardy.

I understand that most peacekeepers expect to keep the peace, using a variety of well-documented methods and that bloodshed is minimised. Sending a lightly-armed peacekeeping contingent to Chad would be dangerous for those involved. Peace enforcement is a different mission.

I have little doubt that few national governments would allocate forces to Chad if it was high-risk and bloodshed likely. No-one wants to see a repeat of what happened in Rwanda.

There are a small number of UN contributors who have been prepared to be robust and risk casualties.

If anyone wants to volunteer their nation for the Chad mission step forward.

davidbfpo
I think its probably important that we remember how many other nations besides ours are also in the circumstance of their plates being full. The broad spectrum of operations which have been taking place through the last years have pushed many if not most beyond the limits of their capacity to keep up.

This is most definitely a part of AQ and others "strategy" as several here have more than adequately shown. It cost very little in blood and treasure to create chaos and on the flipside heavy investment of such in order to address said chaos. It seems to be a fact that some situations may have to play themselves out to a certain point before being addressed by outside parties in other than advisory and other such capacities. Sad but unfortunately life.\

This would seem to be one of the key supporting factors for preventative infrastructure support in such areas before they reach this point. Many a time once the cats out the bag theres little to do except wait for it to get tired before trying to catch it. Too bad considering how many lives are often lost due to that very thing.

On that note what can be done in order to help facilitate less drastic effects from this.
Ron Humphrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008   #27
Entropy
Council Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,457
Default Intel support for stability ops - Chad case study

From Kent's Imperative:

Quote:
We continue to be impressed with the uses for commercial overhead imagery which the private sector now increasingly relies upon in an astounding array of situations. While none of these applications are new from the perspective of an intelligence community which has been employing national technical means to similar ends for decades, their independent re-discovery in the outside world, and operationalization in support of crisis situations, remains fascinating from the perspective of intelligence studies scholarship.

The most recent example comes from the conflict in Chad - which provides an excellent and evolving unclassified teaching case to explore the issues involved in small wars and destabilizing countries, particularly for the unique kinds of intelligence support required in noncombatant evacuation operations and other stability and support missions. UNOSAT has recently released a series of products derived from commercial satellite data which attempt to estimate the scale of urban evacuation of the capital of N´Djamena.
For the Chad maps mentions, go here and click on the chad link.
Entropy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2008   #28
Jedburgh
Council Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,097
Default

USIP, 15 Dec 08: Toward Resolving Chad’s Interlocking Conflicts
Quote:
....In October 2008, USIP and the International Peace Institute, in collaboration with Caring for Kaela, sponsored a multi-stakeholder consultation to address the political instability in Chad and its regional implications. The attendees included representatives from the Chadian diaspora, ambassadors from countries in the region, U.N. and EU representatives and experts from the non-governmental community and academia.

This report summarizes the consultation’s main themes and recommendations. The first section addresses the security, political and humanitarian situation in Chad; examines the August 13 Political Agreement between the Chadian government and opposition parties and suggests ideas for the way forward. The second section focuses on the regional dynamics, including the tension between Chad and Sudan, the crisis in the Central African Republic (CAR) and progress on the implementation of the Dakar Agreement, a pan-African initiative. The third section examines the international response to the crisis in Chad, including the role of the EU and U.N. and critical international stakeholders such as France, the U.S., and China......
Jedburgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010   #29
student2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
Default Chadian–Libyan conflict, Toyota War

Hello everyone,
I am a student majoring in military history and I would like to write a capstone paper about the Chadian-Libyan conflict, specifically the "Toyota War". I cannot find any primary sources or books on the matter. Do you have any recommendations or suggestions?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-26-2010 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Moved to RFI from Africa thread and PM to author
student2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010   #30
davidbfpo
Council Member
 
davidbfpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 10,641
Default Maybe a pointer

Alas SWC appeared a long time after the war and there is little here on a quick check. Always use the search feature!

It was very much a French issue, so perhaps this French news site can help, if behind a registration / paywall: http://thecroissant.com/index.html

Try some French military sites / journals.

One of the intriguing aspects were the complex international politics, Iraq supported the French as Libya then was an opponent. Didn't the USAF assist with transporting French supplies in?
__________________
davidbfpo
davidbfpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010   #31
jmm99
Council Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,021
Default Chad resource

Try a PM to this guy, M-A Lagrange. Chad was one of his operational areas; now the South Sudan.

Welcome to the forum.

Bonne Chance

Mike
jmm99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010   #32
davidbfpo
Council Member
 
davidbfpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 10,641
Default French Foreign Legion?

Might be worthwhile looking at Foreign Legion memoirs by ex-members, there' s often a few on library and bookshop shelves. I have a recollection that some have chapters on this conflict.
__________________
davidbfpo
davidbfpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010   #33
carl
Council Member
 
carl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver on occasion
Posts: 2,458
Default

You might also try Mission Aviation Fellowship and Air Serv International. They may have had some aircraft based in Chad at the time and you could get some worms eye view stories from pilots or mechanics. I remember one guy telling me how he watched a Libyan jet get shot down over the airport.
__________________
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene
carl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010   #34
davidbfpo
Council Member
 
davidbfpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 10,641
Default Publish here when done?

student2010,

Please consider posting your paper here at the end. Even submit for the SWJ Blog.
__________________
davidbfpo
davidbfpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010   #35
M-A Lagrange
Council Member
 
M-A Lagrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Barsoom, as a fact!
Posts: 976
Default

Hello,

I will try to help.
What are you talking about first of all?
Are you talking about Operation Manta or Operation Epervier?
I believe we are here on Op Manta. But I might be wrong.
Some links with web sites and blogs about the subject.
http://www.7septembre.fr/index.php
A nice web site with a short film on the destruction of a Libyan bomber plane by French troops.
http://www.abebooks.fr/OPERATION-MAN.../1330480997/bd
A book in french on Operation Manta that preceded the operation epervier.
A blog from a Troupe de marine colonel on Operation Manta:
http://fncv-drome.over-blog.com/article-29446462.html
The site of the paratroopers Legionaires on operation Manta
http://paralegion.free.fr/manta.php
And the revue Heracles from the French Army:
http://www.cdef.terre.defense.gouv.f.../01H_retex.pdf

I hope this will help.

M-A
M-A Lagrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010   #36
student2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
Default

Yes, I am referring to Operation Mantra. Thanks guys! I can't express my appericiation enough. I will definitely post my paper after I finish it. Right now, I am trying to determine if I can find enough good quality primary sources so that I can write a Capstone thesis paper. I would love to also find primary Chadian sources, if possible.
student2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010   #37
BayonetBrant
Council Member
 
BayonetBrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 258
Default

Although this link is to the board game included in the old Strategy & Tactics magazine, the accompanying articles / bibliography might be able to help also:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardga...he-toyota-wars

__________________
Brant
Wargaming and Strategy Gaming at GrogHeads
Military news and views at GrogNews

“their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of ‘rights’… and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure.” Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers 1959

Play more wargames!
BayonetBrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010   #38
student2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
Default

I have been trying to get my hands on the board war game! Thank you for the recommendation. I was thinking along the same lines. I believe there is another war game about the Toyota War. I will definitely check those out. I was even thinking of creating another war game on the Toyota War and the current conflict between Chad, the Central African Republic, and the Sudan.
student2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010   #39
BayonetBrant
Council Member
 
BayonetBrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 258
Default

Just be careful about the names. IIRC, S&T got in some trouble for the use of "Toyota" in the title.
__________________
Brant
Wargaming and Strategy Gaming at GrogHeads
Military news and views at GrogNews

“their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of ‘rights’… and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure.” Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers 1959

Play more wargames!
BayonetBrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010   #40
Mark Stout
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2
Default

You might also have a look at Kenneth Pollack's Arabs at War. If I recall correctly, he discusses that war and if so his bibliography would have something on it.
Mark Stout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Matters Blackwater (Merged thread) SWJED PMCs and Entrepreneurs 316 01-14-2017 01:13 PM
Assessing AQ's future (merged thread) Jedburgh Global Issues & Threats 214 12-29-2016 09:16 AM
OSINT: "Brown Moses" & Bellingcat (merged thread) davidbfpo Intelligence 25 04-21-2016 10:15 AM
All matters MRAP JLTV (merged thread) SWJED Trigger Puller 354 05-08-2013 01:05 PM
After the Bin Laden op, what is the impact? Not on terrorism. Merged thread Ray Global Issues & Threats 69 05-23-2012 11:51 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9. ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Registered Users are solely responsible for their messages.
Operated by, and site design © 2005-2009, Small Wars Foundation