Corrective Training vs Punishment

[Shek]

I wish we had the same ability to turn around... where I'm at, JAG still gets to review and process the packet, not the orderly room. Which in many cases doesn't give a time advantage compared to a CO of FG. Thus, first lines get tempted into the same cycle with "corrective training" and no due process.

Wow. I wonder if some commanders abused it and so a brigade commander required the processing through JAG. My brigade never had a problem with it since we made sure that the summarized was simply an escalation from formal counseling (i.e, the first your late to formation, verbal counseling/corrective training, the second time put it on paper, and the third time it was a summarized Article 15, provided there wasn't extenuating circumstances and that the offenses occured relatively close together). It might be something to rengage with your commander to see if there was some abuse that resulted in some knee jerk reaction or if that's just the way it always was and nobody thought to challenge it.

[ODB]

do in a busy war when no one had time for some of these things and there was great objection to administratively discharging a guy because he was a little rowdy or a pusher of envelopes. No matter, we're not in one. Yet.

Ken, concur.
We could spend the same amount of time motivating and instilling spirit and using that rowdy soldier where best suited. Seems the Article 15 is just as overrated now as it was in 74.

what kind of young soldier I was? Yes, I was the beer drinking, tail chasing, rowdy troop, who always ended up in 1SG's office Monday morning. I use to call them Grandpa speeches. The thing that kept me from being booted was my attitude. I was just as rowdy if not more so in the woods and 1SG loved it. He booted 50-60 people a year based on performance in the field. If you were no good in the woods, the slightest mistakes in the rear would have you doing the duffle bag drag to the house.

Chain of Command always wanted to keep me in a glass case with a sign "Break Only In Times Of War". Oh, the good old days in the Army, before we became a PC group of sissies!!!!!! Maybe someday I'll share the number and types of Article 15's and what for.....hint they all revolved around my abilities to drink beer and chase tail.

[Uboat509]

In nearly eighteen years that I have been on active duty I have seen one summarized Article 15 that I can recall. Virtually every commander that I had did not believe in them. In fact several felt that it was an indicator of weak NCOs in the platoon, that they were abrogating their responsibility to maintain discipline with in the platoon to the company commander. I tend to agree. The company commander should be the last resort. If I have a soldier in front of the commander it's because either he has committed a serious infraction or that I have done everything within my power and the soldier has refused to do the right thing. If I bring that soldier for anything less than that I am telling the commander that I have failed and that I need him to take care of discipline within my platoon for me.

SFC W

[Courtney Massengale]

Wow. I wonder if some commanders abused it and so a brigade commander required the processing through JAG. My brigade never had a problem with it since we made sure that the summarized was simply an escalation from formal counseling (i.e, the first your late to formation, verbal counseling/corrective training, the second time put it on paper, and the third time it was a summarized Article 15, provided there wasn't extenuating circumstances and that the offenses occured relatively close together). It might be something to rengage with your commander to see if there was some abuse that resulted in some knee jerk reaction or if that's just the way it always was and nobody thought to challenge it.

To put all the cards on the table… the primary reason was because TDS had a ####-hot Major who could spin straw into reduced sentences. Like you mentioned, the Summarized are building blocks up to a 14-12C or BCD Special. This cat was using errors in prior proceedings to get time off, charges reduced, etc. JAG had to review all Summarized so that there weren't mistakes that would cause problems later down the road (violating the 24 hours, poorly worded charge sheets, incorrect counseling statements, etc).

Don't get me wrong – I love TDS. They're one of the few groups of people in the Army who are doing something directly related to the Constitution all day every day. I sometimes wish they weren't so dedicated to their job.

[Stevely]

Thanks for resurrecting this post, JAG Major. I don't really have a dog in it, but I missed the ABC's of OIF and the Major Moments in Reflective Belt History the last time around and am glad I was exposed to it.