Afghanistan troop surge could backfire, experts warn

[Fuchs]

So in other words most here agree that the war is lost because its objective of a stable, power monopoly central state that keeps AQ out won't happen?

A victory (using unaspiring definitions of victory that I usually don't share) would then only be possible if the very goals of the war were changed by our governments (especially deleting the "secular" and allow sharia - you know that won't happen).

What's the difference to just leave and let the civil war parties fight on, supporting the non-Taleban civil war parties along the late 2001/early 2002 invasion model?
It's not like all warlords had disappeared, after all. Afaik they're just saving their forces for the final fights after the Westerners left, just like most militias in Iraq do afaik.

[Ken White]

You have a bad tendency to try to apparently misquote or misunderstand others...

So in other words most here agree that the war is lost because its objective of a stable, power monopoly central state that keeps AQ out won't happen?

No one said that; what was said was that it would not accord to the western 'democratic' vision.

A victory (using unaspiring definitions of victory that I usually don't share)

I believe that...

...would then only be possible

First place, there's no such thing as 'victory' in a COIN operation, all one can do is achieve an acceptable outcome, I see no difficulty in obtaining that in Afghanistan

...if the very goals of the war were changed by our governments (especially deleting the "secular" and allow sharia - you know that won't happen).

Since our governments are adapting on a daily basis to realities on the ground, I think that's quite incorrect. Since Sharia is already in effect in Afghanistan, I'm curious as to on what you base that statement.

It's not like all warlords had disappeared, after all. Afaik they're just saving their forces for the final fights after the Westerners left, just like most militias in Iraq do afaik.

Probably true; they have long memories over there. However, the answer to your question is generational change and hopefully improvement in attitude. We're there to antagonize and thus accelerate that change from five or more to about two generations-- your kids will see the result. Be patient.. .