The Never Ending Airpower Versus Groundpower Debate

[Ken White]

IIRC, Chuck Yeager, AVN hero, was a "Flying Sergeant" before they did away with the program and gave him a commission.[

True, he finished flight training about the time they made 'em Flight Officers, Warrants, on the way to a commission.

Then they tasked him to fly the X-1 because he would do it for a AF salary, vice the high priced test pilots. And he was one of the only ones dumb enough to do it!

Dumb enough? Perhaps. Smart enough to get to BG though. That beats a whole bunch of average bears...

And you should remember from your teenage years that the mantra in his, your and my part of the US is "Watch this s..." Who dares, wins. Dumb, maybe but it's a way of life...

[Cavguy]

True, he finished flight training about the time they made 'em Flight Officers, Warrants, on the way to a commission.Dumb enough? Perhaps. Smart enough to get to BG though. That beats a whole bunch of average bears...

And you should remember from your teenage years that the mantra in his, your and my part of the US is "Watch this s..." Who dares, wins. Dumb, maybe but it's a way of life...

His Autobiography remains one of my favorite reads. I never fail to laugh at all of his "West Virginia Good Ol Boy" vs. the USAF stories, and his self-depreciating sense of humor (except for his flying skills).

I also contend that most valor medals in the Army are for successfully doing dumb (but often necessary) things. Dumb isn't always bad ....

I still characterize my stint at Airborne school as one of the dumbest things I ever did - I can hear the howls from the ABN community already....

[Ken White]

...I still characterize my stint at Airborne school as one of the dumbest things I ever did - I can hear the howls from the ABN community already....

On this, don't bet on it -- you may end up commanding one of those A-bone BCT Cav Sqns...

A guy who was a former 1SG of C Trp in one of them would've appreciated your presence.

BTW, thanks for the AKO feed. Much appreciated

[Tom Odom]

I still characterize my stint at Airborne school as one of the dumbest things I ever did - I can hear the howls from the ABN community already....

And then you went Cav....

There is a trend there, yes there is...

[Cavguy]

And then you went Cav....

There is a trend there, yes there is...

Hey!

I resemble that remark .....

And I went to IZ ... twice ...

[Van]

Chuck Yeager ... Smart enough to get to BG though.

Check the rest of the story. COL Yeager was being a fighter jock, drinking with LTs and CPTs and generally setting a bad example for his subordinates. He was a hero so he couldn't be busted out or passed over for it. So the AF promoted him.

Ahhh... The legacy of the WW II AAF, where a screwed up pilot was still a valuable commodity and would probably die on the next mission anyways. Under those circumstances it was cost effective to avoid formal procedings, but the attitudes carried over into peacetime and became part of the culture.

Now Hap Arnold and Billy Mitchell were products of the interwar Infantry mafia dictating that anything with an engine had to be focused on its relation to the dismounts... Sorry, the foot-soldiers, the centerpiece of the military. Arnold and Mitchell were buddies with Patton during the period when he was working on the emerging armor and armor doctrine. That led to him 'checking out' and focusing on his social life and sports while commanding a cav sqdn at Ft. Myers.

Yes, the AF has issues, but never forget that most of them trace back to Army practices during WWII and the interwar period.

[Tom Odom]

Check the rest of the story. COL Yeager was being a fighter jock, drinking with LTs and CPTs and generally setting a bad example for his subordinates. He was a hero so he couldn't be busted out or passed over for it. So the AF promoted him.

In all fairness, it has not been that long since drinking with the guys was not only acceptable. it was required. That did not change until the early 80s.

I can tell you that a Prop Blast at Fort Bragg or a Friday afternoon happy hour on the Yadkin Road O Club annex was a different world.

Tom

[wm]

In all fairness, it has not been that long since drinking with the guys was not only acceptable. it was required. That did not change until the early 80s.

I can tell you that a Prop Blast at Fort Bragg or a Friday afternoon happy hour on the Yadkin Road O Club annex was a different world.

Tom

OTOH, I can remember being in the O Club in Germany circa 1978-79 and having the Community ADCO (Alcohol and Drug Control Officer) come into the bar at 9:00 PM on a Friday evening and write down the names of everyone still sitting there for a later reporting to the MILCOM commander.

[Ken White]

Check the rest of the story. COL Yeager was being a fighter jock, drinking with LTs and CPTs and generally setting a bad example for his subordinates. He was a hero so he couldn't be busted out or passed over for it. So the AF promoted him.

The fact that he did a good job didn't hurt. As for the drinking with LTs and CPTs -- we can philosophically strongly disagree on that.

Ahhh... The legacy of the WW II AAF, where a screwed up pilot was still a valuable commodity and would probably die on the next mission anyways...

Yes, the AF has issues, but never forget that most of them trace back to Army practices during WWII and the interwar period.

And we can disagree on that. Most of the current AF foibles trace to post 1947, indeed, most to post Viet Nam -- they forgot much of what they learned in WW II.;

[Steve Blair]

Most of the current AF foibles trace to post 1947, indeed, most to post Viet Nam -- they forgot much of what they learned in WW II.;

Gotta second you on this one, Ken. Plus much of the learning they did during WW II was subjective...based primarily on reinforcing the doctrine of strategic bombardment. Stalin's command historians would be proud...

[slapout9]

I still characterize my stint at Airborne school as one of the dumbest things I ever did - I can hear the howls from the ABN community already....

Man that is just low rent