Officer Retention

[jkm_101_fso]

I'd be curious to know how this happens - even if it is intentional. If, for whatever reason, I wanted to avoid deployments, I don't know how I could have done it for 8 years.

Korea. You can stay for multiple tours, as I understand it.

Field Artillery officers are the most deployed, statistically, but we still have a few out there with 5+ years in service and no deployments. Those that have managed it have done the Korea (mulitiple tours) then to Fort Sill COA. If you get the right unit at Sill (ATC, Schoolhouse, FiB) you can avoid deployment. I know an FA Major at ILE right now that has not deployed. I don't think he was actively avoiding it. His one shot to deploy he was the rear-D commander.

[patmc]

I'm sure there are a few people hiding, but the majority are probably victims of circumstance. I lucked out and deployed within a year of arriving at my first unit. Some guys arrived after we returned, and had to either "volunteer" for JMDs, Corps or Bde Taskers, or volunteer for MiTTs. The unit finally deployed again about 2 years later, so there were probably a couple guys who arrived and moved through in between without deploying.

Personally, I've been scratched from 4 deployments. Our unit deployment one year after return from Iraq was scratched one month out, I volunteered for a Corps tasker and was told no, I volunteered to stay and deploy with my unit but Branch said go to CCC, and I volunteered for a MiTT but a medical issue popped up and scratched me. I guess that last one was my fault (or the stir fry at Q-West midnight chow's fault).

Field Artillery officers are the most deployed, statistically, but we still have a few out there with 5+ years in service and no deployments. Those that have managed it have done the Korea (mulitiple tours) then to Fort Sill COA. If you get the right unit at Sill (ATC, Schoolhouse, FiB) you can avoid deployment. I know an FA Major at ILE right now that has not deployed. I don't think he was actively avoiding it. His one shot to deploy he was the rear-D commander.

I would think Fort Sill would make people want to deploy. After 6 months of OBC I was more than motivated to get out of there and go to Bragg so I could deploy. MSR Tampa may not have had nicker beer nights, but it did have better looking women than Lawton...

(I did learn that not wearing one's paracaidista wings in the 82d was more trouble than it was worth. So much for reverse elitism... ).

When we got back from Iraq and finally switched to ACUs, we usually didn't wear wings or badges because they were a pain to pin on. Once our Brigade fell under the 82nd though, we were ordered to wear it all, since it would prevent weird looks and questions if any of us staff guys had to go to Div HQ.

[Ken White]

at every Hq above bde; noticing insignia. Really, excessively noting insignia...

we were ordered to wear it all, since it would prevent weird looks and questions if any of us staff guys had to go to Div HQ.

I had a friend, well traveled, lot of schools, German, Canadian and Viet Namese parachute wings, lot of combat time, been a medic in Korea and and infantryman in Viet Nam, whose favorite game was to wear different stuff to every meeting at Div. Most people noticed but were too polite to say anything, Every now and then, someone would question. Shame I couldn't have sold popcorn on those days...

[Schmedlap]

I remember a retired NCO who worked at my old military school. 4 tours in Vietnam with Ranger Companies and SF units. When he wore ribbons (the "special" days when it was required), he only wore his valor awards and purple hearts - two rows, full of clusters, V's, and other knick-knacks. That guy had some amazing stories, if you could get him to stop talking about coon hunting or bass fishing for more than 2 minutes.

[patmc]

I had a friend, well traveled, lot of schools, German, Canadian and Viet Namese parachute wings...

Nothing stops traffic like a pair of Irish Airborne wings. Trying to understand "outboard personnel, stand up" in Gaelic... that's Army strong.

(during pre-jump, they gave the commands in English, until a Jumpmaster asked them to do it in Gaelic. Their response was basically, ok, but why, we speak English?)

[Schmedlap]

Korea. You can stay for multiple tours, as I understand it.

Heh. I know a guy who did over a year in Korea. All of the wives/girlfriends thought that their boys would be coming home after their Korea tour was up. Nope. They deployed from Korea to Anbar Province for a year-long tour of fun in the sun in the happy place between Ramadi and Fallujah. I think that was 2004 or 2005. I think just about everyone in that unit got divorced.

[AmericanPride]

Heh. I know a guy who did over a year in Korea. All of the wives/girlfriends thought that their boys would be coming home after their Korea tour was up. Nope. They deployed from Korea to Anbar Province for a year-long tour of fun in the sun in the happy place between Ramadi and Fallujah. I think that was 2004 or 2005. I think just about everyone in that unit got divorced.

Something like that seems completely unnecessary to me. Why impose (seemingly) unnecessary hardship on people who already volunteered for a life-risking job?

[Schmedlap]

Something like that seems completely unnecessary to me. Why impose (seemingly) unnecessary hardship on people who already volunteered for a life-risking job?

I think it occurred when the powers-that-were were slowly coming to the realization that, "oh crap, we didn't think to plan for anything after the fall of Baghdad - quick, find some more troops to deploy."

[tankersteve]

Ken and others,

I am sure you are right in many cases but Leavenworth has a lot of folks who I have a gut feeling would wear everything they were entitled to. I understand the notion of only wearing what one feels like he earned/deserved, but you can absolutely tell some of these folks have never smelled cordite outside of a range, and who knows when the last time they went to one of those.

Now, at one time it was harder for senior field grades to get to the fight, as their assignments are more tightly managed. However, with the plethora of staffs filled by JMDs, and the increase of MiTT teams, there is no reason to not have spent some time on the ground.

As for 2/2 ID from Korea, now those are some Soldiers who got screwed. Some may have done the 'Ironman' and not taken mid-tour leave prior to the deployment. To deploy from Korea (no face-to-face family goodbye, non-existent FRG, etc) to a combat zone for 12 months was something I would never want to endure. As a side-note, they limited consecutive tours in Korea...

Tankersteve

[Ken White]

of gnawed at me all day.

I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. You're entitled to your opinion and this is not an attempt to argue the point or even discuss the issue in the sense that I have no intent or desire to change your mind. We can disagree with no penalties either way...

I will however suggest that you might give some thought to the facts that what one does and can do is far more important than where one has been and that the Army personnel system does odd and very unfair things to people. Witness the Korea to Iraq trip; not HRC in that case but point is, unfairness goes with the territory.

I learned the hard way not to make hasty judgments about people based on superficialities and I hate to see others have to do that.

That sounds sort of pompous. Not meant that way.

[Cavguy]

of gnawed at me all day.

I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. You're entitled to your opinion and this is not an attempt to argue the point or even discuss the issue in the sense that I have no intent or desire to change your mind. We can disagree with no penalties either way...

I will however suggest that you might give some thought to the facts that what one does and can do is far more important than where one has been and that the Army personnel system does odd and very unfair things to people. Witness the Korea to Iraq trip; not HRC in that case but point is, unfairness goes with the territory.

I learned the hard way not to make hasty judgments about people based on superficialities and I hate to see others have to do that.

That sounds sort of pompous. Not meant that way.

Have to give Steve some backup here. I find it amazing that some people have avoided OIF/OEF for 6-8 years. It's not like there isn't opportunity. Some people can rationalize it, and a few may have done something like Kosovo instead, but if you wanted to be downrange, you could have been by this point. Hell, they give combat patches for Kuwait.

For guys who have three/four/five tours, it's hard to understand.

RE: Leavenworth, agree with Steve (mostly) but I have come to learn many (not all) of the no-patch wearers are mobilized reservists replacing active folks who deployed. Some of the senior MP NCO's (detention ops) have multiple tours to Gitmo but get no patch.

Niel