Fiasco at the Army War College?

[Bob's World]

Absolutely. Studying Islam, radical or not, will absolutely help one gain insights into the Taliban. Cultural fluency is critical if we're going to reshape the middle east.

Yikes! "Reshape the Middle East"??? And I thought the Intel guys were killing me with mission creep.

We certainly need to "Reshape our approach to the Middle East," but any efforts to reshape the actual populaces and governances there is likely not to be appreciated or effective; and lead to even greater depletion of U.S. Influence through futile efforts to get everyone else to simply conform to our wise and generous will.

Yes study Islam. Yes gain appreciation for the culture and concerns of the region. But don't then turn around and try to use that knowledge to exert your control over them. That's something "the bad guys" do, right?

[Voodoun]

Col Jones, right or wrong, reshaping the middle east has been a policy of the US for quite some time

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/kober-030325.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ddle-East.html

http://www.italy.usembassy.gov/pdf/other/RS22053.pdf


De Opresso Liber - don't we reshape everytime we do just that?

[Bob's World]

Col Jones, right or wrong, reshaping the middle east has been a policy of the US for quite some time

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/kober-030325.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ddle-East.html

http://www.italy.usembassy.gov/pdf/other/RS22053.pdf


De Opresso Liber - don't we reshape everytime we do just that?

And now we grow nearer to the root of the problem! We have indeed made the shaping of the Middle East a central part of our foreign policy and engagement for some 65 years now. The first 45 of that were to wage the Cold War. The last 20 are what should be carefully reviewed and upgraded for the world we live in today.

If the people of the Middle East were primarily Hindu we would be facing a "radical Hindu" problem right now.

The question is, why are these people so upset, and why are they directing that in our general direction? Those who contribute it to differences of religion, or jealousy, or any one of another dozen favorites that get wheeled out to avoid taking any responsibility back on ourselves are why we are 8 years into this problem, with little headway to show for it. This is not to say it is our fault, for I am with the President here, and will not apologize. But recognizing ones responsibilities are a far cry from accepting blame for a complex problem that many factors have contributed to.

[Voodoun]

Col Jones,

I was saying that if reshaping the middle east is our goal, then cultural fluency is necessary. I'm not making a right/wrong judgement on reshaping the middle east - I draw clear lines for myself on that sort of policy advocacy. My focus is on matching policy to goals, not determining the righteousness of goals. Maybe 20 years from now I'll get to that point, but right now I try to restrict my lane.

Cavguy - fear mongering conspiracy theory minded people on both sides of the political aisle are a big pet peeve of mine. I do think that you're not giving the Islamists enough agency here - US perceptions abroad and by first generation Americans (of which I am one) are not actively controlled by the USG or its actions. The propaganda efforts of Islamists, particularly Palestinians (who learned it from the secular Palestinian organizations being trained by the KGB) are AMAZING. Their harb al nafsiyah may be the most sophisticated and successful that the world has ever seen.

Aside from the Phares text, Ron Schliefer's Psychological Warfare in the Intifada: Israeli and Palestinian Media Politics and Military Strategies is a doozy.

As you can imagine, when I have conversations with my childhood friend, the talk usually turns to US policy, the military, etc. As an American, he believes no Jews died on 9/11. This is a college educated (computer science) businessman who tells me that bin Laden works for CIA, and was trained by them in Afghanistan. He tells me that the US has been stealing oil from Iraq. He tells me that Bush is being played by the Zionists (funny enough, like many American Arabs I meet, he seems to have a soft spot for Bush) who control Congress.

These are not perceptions logically deduced from US actions.

[William F. Owen]

These are not perceptions logically deduced from US actions.

... or delusions crafted from an ignorance that helps him justify his beliefs.

[RTK]

Yikes! "Reshape the Middle East"??? And I thought the Intel guys were killing me with mission creep.

We certainly need to "Reshape our approach to the Middle East," but any efforts to reshape the actual populaces and governances there is likely not to be appreciated or effective; and lead to even greater depletion of U.S. Influence through futile efforts to get everyone else to simply conform to our wise and generous will.

Yes study Islam. Yes gain appreciation for the culture and concerns of the region. But don't then turn around and try to use that knowledge to exert your control over them. That's something "the bad guys" do, right?

COL Jones,

Completely unrelated question that perhaps COL Maxwell could weigh in on as well; Why have we been more successful in the Philippeans with our approach than we have in the Middle East?

[Bob's World]

COL Jones,

Completely unrelated question that perhaps COL Maxwell could weigh in on as well; Why have we been more successful in the Philippeans with our approach than we have in the Middle East?

In short, because in the Philippines we manage to mind our own business at the same time as we mind to our national interests.

In the Middle East, we made everything our business as well.

Examples:

• In the Philippines, the HN conducts COIN and CT, the US conducts FID
• In the Philippines there are no U.S. detainees, only Philippino detainees
• In the Philippines there are no U.S. bases, only Philippino bases
• In the Philippines, U.S. soldiers don't kill Philippinos, Philippino soldiers do
• In the Philippines the U.S. was invited in by the HN, in the Middle East we invaded

This can go on and on. Clearly not all of this is applicable, but if I was going to summarize the one key difference it is that we tend to treat the Philippine populace more as we would treat the American Populace; but we do not extend that same respect to the Populaces of many of the places we engage elsewhere.