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  1. #1
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    Hopefully we'll drop the 'team' bit and just call it an Armored Brigade.Too infantry heavy IMO. Two Tank and two Mech Cos are far more flexible.
    Designations are supposed to mean something. A 2-2 ratio is typically understood to be a mechanised (infantry) brigade; infantry in protected tracked vehicles and main battle tanks, suitable for a wide variety of terrain.

    An Armored Brigade would receive a different NATO icon on maps and lead coalition staffs to inadvertently think that the formation is rather meant for terrain that's not so nice to infantry AND to think that the entire formation is suitable for demands of fast operational advances.


    Besides; I'm a bit flabbergasted why one of the bigger active armies in NATO would turn away from formation specialization and embrace a standard format. Small forces need to standardise, bigger ones can enjoy the benefits of specialisation.
    There should be formations with a focus on mounted combat (with infantry strength for the exception from this rule) and mechanised formations with a focus on slower, yet more thorough dismounted combat (where tanks become assault guns and security vehicles, with infantry being the main hand). I suppose the airborne and 'mountain' forces do not satisfy the need for the latter.


    (West) Germany had a 1950's discussion about optimal brigades (divisions were ruled out as too cumbersome and only raised because politicians had promised 12 of them to the West). A universal balanced brigade was favoured, but geographic realities forced us to specialise (South and North Germany are very dissimilar).
    In the end, we developed an entirely different culture and tactics between armour and mech inf brigades. The armour brigades turned towards a much, much faster and more daring movement style while the armoured mech thought more infantry-like and emphasised security more. I suspect a balanced standard brigade would not develop such a rich repertoire for an army.

  2. #2
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    Designations are supposed to mean something. A 2-2 ratio is typically understood to be a mechanised (infantry) brigade; infantry in protected tracked vehicles and main battle tanks, suitable for a wide variety of terrain.
    The US norm was, for years, two Inf, one Tank = Mech Bde; two Tank, one Inf = Armored Bde. The hybrid 2 and 2 is my idea of a better approach. Not telling yet how the Armored Bde will actually be structured.
    Besides; I'm a bit flabbergasted why one of the bigger active armies in NATO would turn away from formation specialization and embrace a standard format. Small forces need to standardise, bigger ones can enjoy the benefits of specialisation.
    True but that's what happens when one lets the Accountants have too much sway...
    ...The armour brigades turned towards a much, much faster and more daring movement style while the armoured mech thought more infantry-like and emphasised security more. I suspect a balanced standard brigade would not develop such a rich repertoire for an army.
    Same here and I believe your assessment's correct.

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    Default I think the Crusader project has promise...

    ... Crusader (maybe BAe should look into it. Seems like "outlandish" is their motto)

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    Council Member J Wolfsberger's Avatar
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    John Wolfsberger, Jr.

    An unruffled person with some useful skills.

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    Council Member gute's Avatar
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    Interesting article by Ralph Peters from 1997. If you noticed from the photos and descriptions of the GCV is the sensors or similar capabilities. Anyways, take a look at his article on the future of armored warfare:

    http://www.carlisle.army.mil/USAWC/p...umn/peters.htm
    Last edited by gute; 03-15-2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: a product of the Oregon public school system

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    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Whenever there's talk about 'future tanks' keep in mind that it's likely only about Western future tank projects or even only about requirements.

    Meanwhile East and South Asia is mass-producing the classic MBT and (thinly armoured) IFV categories and judging by the numbers they define the future of tanks.

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    Council Member gute's Avatar
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    I really wondered how long it would take GM to put tracks on the Stryker and try to market it as a viable option for the GCV. I don't know this for a fact - total speculation.

    http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/

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