Yes, and they were made (akin to the Philippine Marine Corps) in our image, which is not what we are trying to do here...perhaps.Originally Posted by Culpeper
Yes, and they were made (akin to the Philippine Marine Corps) in our image, which is not what we are trying to do here...perhaps.
Having looked at the Royal Thai Marine Corps pretty closely, I am not sure the USMC model travels that well. Thai culture doesn't make it easy and I think Iraqi culture would present real problems.
Personally - and I have NO dog in this fight - I'd see them more as a type of River Commando Force, or Fleet Protection Group, or something like Commachio. OK so Iraq does not have Nukes, but change nukes for Oil platform and that may be a start.
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
OK, so somebody explain to me why in the wide, wide world of sports we need to create another army in Iraq.
Capt Ortiz has already explained that they are not to be naval infantry, just "different". Huh? Better faster shinier?
- well, this civilian's outside opinion is worth about .001 but every time I see Iraqi army troops on TV, they come across as somehow hesitant or something, a little light on their feet so to speak, reminds me of the ARVNs of S. Viet Nam, not a lot of grit but there are bound to be some solid Iraqi units, just not enough of them. I don't have any answers but I wonder how many Iraqi soldiers are in it for the pay check, steady income for the family? I would think an Iraqi Marine Corps would seek to instill some esprit de corps, pride in sacrifice and ability with the paycheck being secondary.
Across my two later deploys, I came to believe that the number of guys in for a meal tix was about 75-90%
The man in charge of the Iraqi Navy wants a another budget stream? This is a Navy you are talking about. Why are you applying logic?
Seriously, my understanding of Naval Infantry, based on the Royal Navy, is they are sailors who are also trained as infantry, so anything that is not that would seem to be within bounds. Logically I can only see a role for some kind of Fleet Protection Group or proper Navy SF/Combat Swimmer.
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
The $60K Question...
may just be why does Iraq need an IqM. But it's in the works. Perhaps there may be some influence on the Iraqi Navy by the performance of the US Marines.
Wilf you may be close on the mark since I read here that a mission of the 2nd Marine Battalion was primary security of Umm Qasr port facility, while the 1st Marine Battalion had the primary oil terminal point defense security mission.
The formation of the ROKMC, RTMC, VNMC, and others certainly used the USMC as a baseline for start up but each gradually developed into it's own distinctive service. One does see the USMC influence in much of the iconography of many Marine formations still today.
"What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women."
An Arab predessor?
Perhaps the Trucial Oman Scouts, which became the UAE Defence Force in 1971, are an example to examine? A small force with a reputation, note mainly locally recruited and some expat officers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucial_Oman_Scouts
Closer to visit and not so long ago.
davidbfpo
Congratulations on getting that job and know that I am green with jealous rage. That's a dream job for someone who takes being an advisor seriously. (You'll see how rare that is soon enough.)
I spent a year on a MTT with 3rd Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 1st IA in 2008. I'll let you know the issues we had with the Iraqi Army which will probably be pretty similar.
First off, you mentioned uniforms. The IA have an official uniform but don't provide enough, if any, of them to the jinuud. You'll see them with old style woodlands, both knock off and real digitals of both desert and woodland MARPAT, along with the army gravel driveway digitals, and even flight suits. By now they've probably got frog suits as well. Anything military-esque they can acquire they wear. Your problem won't be designing a uniform, it will be getting enough so that they can wear only that and nothing else.
Second, the US Military has passed on its addiction to motorized ops to the IA. Getting them to do ops dismounted took some serious wasta and only the experienced, intelligent officers would consider it. If they're going to be light infantry, they need to walk.
Third, the NCO corps in the IA is in its infancy, it will be worse in a freshly stood up Iraqi Marine Corps. Hopefully you have a strong senior enlisted Marine on your team who can focus on developing them through their senior leadership. We wanted to set up a "battalion SNCO academy" but couldn't due to high optempo and weak SNCO leadership on the MTT side.
Speaking of leadership, the officer in the Iraqi military is everything. Nothing will get done unless it's through them. Focus on encouraging a strong officer corps and developing the NCOs and everything else will eventually fall into place. I realize these are both "big picture" issues but hopefully your MTT chain of command will listen to your observations and suggestions from the ground level. (If they're anything like mine, they won't)
As for building an ethos, personal leadership is everything in Arab culture, and the Iraqi Army has been pretty bad at this. If you convince the officer and NCO corps to lead from the front, share hardships and danger with their jinuud, and not take advantage of the privileges of rank, they will become different than the IA and be stronger for it. (For example, field grade officers in the IA have personal servants drawn from their unit, elevate their relatives and ensure they are paid whether or not they are official members of the unit, and skimming money from the jinuuds' pay is almost pervasive.) The best way to do this is through example, second nature for Marines, and again focus on the officers. Once they are square, it will trickle down eventually. The Reaganomics of Leadership, if you will.
I didn't want to ask that question, b/c it seems from CPT Ortiz's info that the die has been cast, and the Iraq gov't wants this, whether it's a good idea or not.
They didn't ask our advice on whether or not they should do it, they asked for help with execution. To that end, I think there have been some good suggestions for CPT Ortiz here (I especially like the very first response, brusque tho it was). The policy debate before the mission was handed to him seems to have ended a while ago.
My gut is certainly with you - this is a waste of Iraqi time and money, and USMC effort - but given that no one asked me, I'm like the others here, trying to answer a question that shouldn't've been asked to start with, in teh hopes that we can help a Marine do a good job downrange.
Brant
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