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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi Tom,



    As far as conditions in haiti were concerned, I was relying not only on "official" reports, which are frequently subject to judicious "editing" but, rather, on reports from a number friends and ex-students who are Haitian and let me know what's happening with their family and friends back there.



    Truth in advertising never plays well with moral entrepreneurs . How about the following ad



    I suspect I already know your answer





    Which, BTW, is one of the reasons why I said that it was too bad we got out of the governance business. Seriously, these are all serious problems with doing anything in the area, especially when you have organizations whose business requires that they have a plentiful supply of "raw material".

    It is, however, absolutely critical, at least in my opinion, to distinguish between the "support an 90% overhead" crowd and the groups that actually try to do something and have a much, MUCH lower overhead. I've done some work (yes, as a volunteer) with several aid / development agencies, but I wouldn't touch them if they didn't have wide open books (I've also turned down contracts with the other type). Some of them do some great work with some serious follow-up; they also tend to be fairly small and tend to work very locally on the long term, unlike the crisis de jour variety.



    It's a good analogy, Tom - I've used similar ones when I've taught social theory; it's one of the reasons why I tend to be exceedingly cautious with anything related to cultural or social engineering. The best form of both that I've ever come across is to rely on basic human motivations like enlightened self interest and reinforce them. One of my big problems with most of the attempts at social and cultural engineering is that it tries to be top down and based on ideologies rather than working with people's actual desires.
    Careful there, Marc, you're getting perilously close to uttering the dreaded "I" word. ("Look, let me go back in there and face the peril." "No, Marc, it's much too perilous." "I can handle it. Really.")

    The "I" word is, of course, imperialism. Pity really, that we're simply not morally equipped to do any of that, anymore. It was hardly such an unmixed bag of evil as it's generally portrayed as. Indeed, most of the formerly British colonies, possessions, and proctetorates, are doing comparatively well.

    I liked that ad, but couldn't help but notice how interestingly flexible phrases like "help support" and "help pay for" are. At least insofar as they mean, as they often do, that "5% of your money goes to support one person, who needs 792 of you people to live fairly well. The rest is split, 55% to bribes, 21% to our Chairman's little dacha in Darien, CT, 9% to our legal defense fund, 4% to our accounting firm and their tax attorneys, and the rest for advertising..."

    Yes, there are some vast differences in overhead among charities. I'm not sanguine that the end result, however, varies much on the ground, generally. Exceptions? Yes, probably a few, for a while, and then the jungle returns. My church, for example, supports a school in Haiti, the nuns who teach there, and the two women who cook for the kids (as someone must because their families can't or won't but in any case don't). And if they're successful over the next 20 years what will it mean beyond that 640 (of about 820 anticipated 'graduates' over that time) somewhat literate Haitians will escape for greener pastures?

    You realize, I trust, that reports from your students are somewhat anecdotal, evidence-wise.

  2. #2
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Tom,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kratman View Post
    Careful there, Marc, you're getting perilously close to uttering the dreaded "I" word. ("Look, let me go back in there and face the peril." "No, Marc, it's much too perilous." "I can handle it. Really.")

    The "I" word is, of course, imperialism. Pity really, that we're simply not morally equipped to do any of that, anymore. It was hardly such an unmixed bag of evil as it's generally portrayed as. Indeed, most of the formerly British colonies, possessions, and proctetorates, are doing comparatively well.
    Personally, I've never had as much of a problem with imperialism, at least in the open, British, sense, as I have had with other forms of it including, but not limited to, the neo-feudalist version currently in practice by many bureaucracies. Then again, I'm a descendant of United Empire Loyalists and (by blood and schooling) a member of the Family Compact, so I'm obviously biased .

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kratman View Post
    I liked that ad, but couldn't help but notice how interestingly flexible phrases like "help support" and "help pay for" are. At least insofar as they mean, as they often do, that "5% of your money goes to support one person, who needs 792 of you people to live fairly well. The rest is split, 55% to bribes, 21% to our Chairman's little dacha in Darien, CT, 9% to our legal defense fund, 4% to our accounting firm and their tax attorneys, and the rest for advertising..."
    Yup, they are "flexible". What truly bothers me is looking at how close that is, both yours and mine, to the reality in some of the more unethical groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kratman View Post
    Yes, there are some vast differences in overhead among charities. I'm not sanguine that the end result, however, varies much on the ground, generally. Exceptions? Yes, probably a few, for a while, and then the jungle returns. My church, for example, supports a school in Haiti, the nuns who teach there, and the two women who cook for the kids (as someone must because their families can't or won't but in any case don't). And if they're successful over the next 20 years what will it mean beyond that 640 (of about 820 anticipated 'graduates' over that time) somewhat literate Haitians will escape for greener pastures?
    I've been involved with several projects supporting schools in the Dominican Republic and, while the overall picture is much better there, some of the same problems are still apparent, e.g. the brain drain. What is fascinating, however, is that, as Rex noted, if the society can be stabilized at a fairly basic level, then remittances can work as a driver. I doubt that more than 15% of the students in the school projects I've worked with will leave the DR for more than a couple of years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kratman View Post
    You realize, I trust, that reports from your students are somewhat anecdotal, evidence-wise.
    Yup. Then again, surveys and statistical analyses are just reified and projected anecdotal data . More seriously, so much depends on what indicators you look at, how you collect the data, how variables are defined both by the surveyors and the population being surveyed, etc. All too often, the people who write these surveys use a supposed universal indicator which actually isn't universal, it's a cultural projection (the rather vicious fights amongst the various international feminists are a great example of this).
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi Tom,



    Personally, I've never had as much of a problem with imperialism, at least in the open, British, sense, as I have had with other forms of it including, but not limited to, the neo-feudalist version currently in practice by many bureaucracies. Then again, I'm a descendant of United Empire Loyalists and (by blood and schooling) a member of the Family Compact, so I'm obviously biased .



    Yup, they are "flexible". What truly bothers me is looking at how close that is, both yours and mine, to the reality in some of the more unethical groups.



    I've been involved with several projects supporting schools in the Dominican Republic and, while the overall picture is much better there, some of the same problems are still apparent, e.g. the brain drain. What is fascinating, however, is that, as Rex noted, if the society can be stabilized at a fairly basic level, then remittances can work as a driver. I doubt that more than 15% of the students in the school projects I've worked with will leave the DR for more than a couple of years.



    Yup. Then again, surveys and statistical analyses are just reified and projected anecdotal data . More seriously, so much depends on what indicators you look at, how you collect the data, how variables are defined both by the surveyors and the population being surveyed, etc. All too often, the people who write these surveys use a supposed universal indicator which actually isn't universal, it's a cultural projection (the rather vicious fights amongst the various international feminists are a great example of this).
    We're somewhat special cases, though. The Empire never did a lot to or for us (at least til near the end) but protect us from the French and Indians, even as it served you mostly to protect you from us. Oz and Kiwiland were similar. None of us bear a great similarity to Kenya or Nigeria. That said, both of the latter two are doing much better in just about every way than the subSaharan norm.

    God Bless England, and I don't mean the Irish song of that title.

    The DR bears little relationship to Haiti. It's a real country. Maybe not a great one, but a real one.

  4. #4
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Tom,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kratman View Post
    We're somewhat special cases, though. The Empire never did a lot to or for us (at least til near the end) but protect us from the French and Indians, even as it served you mostly to protect you from us. Oz and Kiwiland were similar. None of us bear a great similarity to Kenya or Nigeria. That said, both of the latter two are doing much better in just about every way than the subSaharan norm.
    Quite true. What I find fascinating about how the Empire was run is the massive use of indirect governance (indirect rule). Then again, this probably had to do with the fact that most of the Empire was built by companies rather than by politicians, and it goes downhill once the politicians start taking over the governance.

    The use of indirect rule meant that a lot of the social infrastructure of governance was, at least somewhat, tailored to the area and included some parts of the local cultural expectations. The cultural "policy" of intermarriage helped a lot too .

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kratman View Post
    The DR bears little relationship to Haiti. It's a real country. Maybe not a great one, but a real one.
    What fascinates me about the differences between the two are the similarities. I use the two of them as a good example of just why geographical determinism just doesn't work as a primary causal factor for social form. The DR is a truly fascinating social experiment in so many ways. Sigh .... I want to go back.... Anyway, one of the more fascinating things I've seen there is how local organization operates and enforces moral codes that are, quite literally, survival characteristics. Even more impressive is that the logic of the codes is quite well known.

    Anyway, back to rehearsing.....
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi Tom,



    Quite true. What I find fascinating about how the Empire was run is the massive use of indirect governance (indirect rule). Then again, this probably had to do with the fact that most of the Empire was built by companies rather than by politicians, and it goes downhill once the politicians start taking over the governance.

    The use of indirect rule meant that a lot of the social infrastructure of governance was, at least somewhat, tailored to the area and included some parts of the local cultural expectations. The cultural "policy" of intermarriage helped a lot too .



    What fascinates me about the differences between the two are the similarities. I use the two of them as a good example of just why geographical determinism just doesn't work as a primary causal factor for social form. The DR is a truly fascinating social experiment in so many ways. Sigh .... I want to go back.... Anyway, one of the more fascinating things I've seen there is how local organization operates and enforces moral codes that are, quite literally, survival characteristics. Even more impressive is that the logic of the codes is quite well known.

    Anyway, back to rehearsing.....
    Indeed. One of the popular mind's great misconceptions was that the American Revolution was a revolution. It was nothing of the kind. What it was, was a _counter_-revolution to preserve the powers and institutions we'd grown ourselves from the grasping and overreaching parliament that was trying to change the deal. Yes, of course they had their reasons.

    The DR doesn't undermine just geographic determinism. It has things to say about genetic determinism as well. Yes, they've got more Euro in their gene pool. Possibly more Taino, as well. But they are still in heavy part descended from slaves more or less indistinguishable from the ancestors of the current Haitians. And they've done much better, even so.

    I've considered retiring there. The wife, however, insists that if we were to move to Latin American, it will bloodydamnedwell be to Panama.

    Can geography matter? Well, yes, sure. Sometimes. Sitting on a desert covering a lot of oil will tend to turn your population to wastrels. And being effectively isolated from just about everyone and everything else seems to tend to throw up god-kings (i.e. Egypt and Japan).

    Go rehearse.

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    An interesting piece in the NYT on the communal dynamics at work among Haitian IDPs:

    Fighting Starvation, Haitians Share Portions

    By DAMIEN CAVE
    Published: January 25, 2010

    PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — Maxi Extralien, a twig-thin 10-year-old in a SpongeBob pajama top, ate only a single bean from the heavy plate of food he received recently from a Haitian civic group. He had to make it last.

    “My mother has 12 kids but a lot of them died,” he said, covering his meal so he could carry it to his family. “There are six of us now and my mom.”

    For Maxi and countless others here in Haiti’s pulverized capital, new rules of hunger etiquette are emerging. Stealing food, it is widely known, might get you killed. Children are most likely to return with something to eat, but no matter what is found, or how hungry the forager, everything must be shared.

    ...

    A few doors down, Elsie Perdriel cooked up what little she could. Her one-story home with maroon trim survived the earthquake, making her one of the lucky ones. But now she has 20 mouths to feed instead of four: seven children, including her grandson, a few extended relatives, and neighbors who lost their own homes.

    It is a miniature civilization focused on food. Every day, one or two people are given the task of buying a single meal for the lot, but the purchases are small because money is tight. Work, a paycheck and disposable income all look a long way off.

    Ms. Perdriel, an administrator with the national electric utility, has not heard from her bosses since the earthquake. Her son, Jean Sebastian Perdriel, 30, said his office by the port, where he worked for an import-export company, no longer stood.

    “Nobody knows when they’re going to get started again,” he said. “Food, oil, rice, beans, it’s all expensive.”

    Ms. Perdriel, a no-nonsense cook with her hair pulled back, displayed a pot with half of a chicken cut into pieces. “This should be for two people,” she said. “Now it will have to do for 20.”

    Many other Haitians, while shouting for help in ever louder voices, are finding ways to share. In several neighborhoods of Carrefour, a poor area closer to the epicenter, small soup kitchens have sprung up with discounted meals, subsidized by Haitians with a little extra money. At 59 Impasse Eddy on Monday, three women behind a blue house stirred a pot of beans and rice, flavored with coconut, spices and lime juice.

    They started cooking for their neighbors the day after the earthquake. On many mornings, they serve 100 people before 10 a.m.

    “Everyone pays a small amount, 15 gourd,” or a little less than 50 cents, said Guerline Dorleen, 30, sitting on a small chair near the bubbling pot. “Before, this kind of meal would cost 50.”

    Smiling and proud, the women said they did not have the luxury of waiting for aid groups to reach them in their hilly neighborhood. The trouble was, they were running out of food. They used their last bit of rice and beans on Monday.

    ...
    They mostly come at night. Mostly.


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