Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
The quoted posting on the licit and illicit use of tu quoque, points to the overall character of this thread. Each side has a view that may have some relevance. However, the actual truth of the matter quite probably lies somewhere in between the two polar extremes that this thread's posts seem to display. The dogged adherence by posters to their positions reminds me of a great exchange from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure:

Actually I don't believe there is a middle ground. You have to call it where it lies not in between where the two teams think it should be.

On one side you have Germany the country that started two world wars, as a country has an split personality disorder, and is the site of the number one abomination in the last century the holocaust. Add to that the fact that Europe has relied on the United States for a large component of its national defense and Germany especially.

On the other side you have the nation that until WW2 forswore large scale combat, only truly got involved after a major attack on it, and as a consequence of that basically rebuilt the entirety of Europe. The United States has always rejected effete continental metropolitanization of international politics for workman like behavior. If a hammer doesn't do it get a bigger hammer. United States foreign policy has always been "define the enemy, kill the enemy, go home", it is only when we deviate from that script that we seem to run into issues.

Though I'd have to agree with Fuchs. Those who are more political animals than thinking individuals would disagree with me, but I think the United States will shutter its bases in Europe and other locales. The collective gasp of punditry heard around the world is amazing. Thinking outside the box, not restricted by political obsession, nor held by the straw man of "what about", I think the case will be made for stripping our foreign bases and bringing all troops home.

Of course what about Korea? Well, I know there are bunch of people who say we have this obligation. I'm not sure the next generation of Americans are going to be willing to pay for that obligation regardless of the current political culture. The situation in Korea hasn't been resolved in 50 years it is time to go home. Fulda Gap? So we are to pay for an Army to sit next to spot on a map based on WW2 maneuver warfare tactics in a nation that is obviously hostile (including trading with our actual enemies) to our interests.

There are a variety of technologies, techniques, skills, methods, incentives, and outright bribes that are cheaper, easier, and faster than the current politics of leprosy we have.

The refrain of "You're an isolationist" is almost as evil "You're a communist" and usually only followed by the more tenacious "that is childish" as far as pejorative phrases and ad hominem attack. The problem is that todays children are going to inherent the running of the United States tomorrow. It has nothing to do with "my" politics or feelings, but the reality of what will become U.S. domestic politics in the future.

Regardless of the emotion history is on my side it is only a matter of time. From the Philippines to the Panama canal the United States has left. Of course Fuchs will not want to look at what happened in both locations after the U.S. left. Regardless of the emotions, feelings, "political expediency", I think that the economic issues currently in play and the brittle supply chains to a world wide national force are going to force a draw down. My hope is that we can maintain the standing force because I perceive that in a vacuum of projected power all heck will break loose.

Time will resolve the argument one way or the other.