A quick question on protocal

[Rob Thornton]

Marc,
I'd say its normal - formality is somewhat pervasive, being all "sirs" and "ma'ams". The old - "when in doubt, be formal" is a fairly common rule. You should have just said you were Canadian and they'd have understood. Having you at a military college would be very beneficial to us - I hope you strongly consider it. Once they get to know your touchy feely side you'll proabably Marc'd to death.
Regards, Rob

[John T. Fishel]

Marc--

It is NEVER appropriate to address a person who has identified himself as PhD (phuddy duddy) as Mr.

However, there are exceptions based on local convention at certain schools and in certain departments in those schools. Back in the stone age, when I was a grad student at Indiana, the convention in my department - political science - was to call all faculty Mr., Mrs., or Miss (Ms did not exist). My minor department, anthropology, used the title of Dr. for PhDs. Today, George Washington U addresses all faculty, regardless of degree or rank, as Professor.

That said, local convention should under no circumstances outweigh the respect that a formal inquiry - even one made through informal means - demands. Nevertheless, my good friend Dr, Tyrrell, the person who responded to you was either an ignorant idiot or moron with the operative word being ignorant

Your obdt servant

John T. PhD (Piled high and deep/phuddy duddy)

[John T. Fishel]

Since all of us PhDs are prima donnas - by definition - it is well for us to remember a story told about Oxford Don, C. Northcote Parkinson during his tenure at the British MOD during WWII. It is said that Parkinson had a sign over his desk that read, "Never forget Rule 6." Most of his young male assistants were afraid to ask but a few of the braver ones did. The answer they received from Parkinson - without even looking up from what he was doing - was, "Don't take yourself too seriously." That satisfied most of the young men. But occasionally a really bright one would ask, " But, Dr, Parkinson, what are the 5 preceding rules?" Parkinson would stop, look up, and respond, "Young man, there are no other rules."

[marct]

Hi John,

Since all of us PhDs are prima donnas - by definition - it is well for us to remember a story told about Oxford Don, C. Northcote Parkinson during his tenure at the British MOD during WWII. It is said that Parkinson had a sign over his desk that read, "Never forget Rule 6." Most of his young male assistants were afraid to ask but a few of the braver ones did. The answer they received from Parkinson - without even looking up from what he was doing - was, "Don't take yourself too seriously." That satisfied most of the young men. But occasionally a really bright one would ask, " But, Dr, Parkinson, what are the 5 preceding rules?" Parkinson would stop, look up, and respond, "Young man, there are no other rules."

I love it! Actually, I think that's one of the reasons I really prefer "Marc" or, from close colleagues, friends and students, phases that can't be posted on a public board .

Marc

[marct]

Hi Dr. Jack and Rob,

Unfortunately, this might be "normal," but it certainly isn't appropriate. The "staff person" is most likely also not the person who ultimately makes hiring decisions, so I would encourage you to look past the poor protocol and to seriously consider options at our military schools -- we need good people with diverse capabilities and expertise (anthropology being one of the hot areas right now!).

I'd say its normal - formality is somewhat pervasive, being all "sirs" and "ma'ams". The old - "when in doubt, be formal" is a fairly common rule. You should have just said you were Canadian and they'd have understood. Having you at a military college would be very beneficial to us - I hope you strongly consider it. Once they get to know your touchy feely side you'll proabably Marc'd to death.
Regards, Rob

I really don't have much of a problem looking past an instance of poor protocol, per se; I'm not really that touchy about it . As for "considering the option", well, that was actually what the email was about - all of the job ads I have seen at the various military colleges state "must be an American citizen", and I was asking if Canadians could be considered. The response was rather emphatic:

Mr. Tyrrell,

You must be a US citizen.

Thanks.

I was honestly wondering if the person responding didn't like Canadians or, maybe, just thought that I was being "uppity" for even asking .

On the whole, I would be quite happy to go for a position in one of the military colleges (as would my wife who is an American citizen) but, as you can guess, the response I got was somewhat off-putting.

Marc

[Steve Blair]

I would expect that you ran into the bureaucratic "drone" who'd seen that same question a few times before (or just got his/her ass chewed by the boss for something or another) and decided to send a petty sounding result. Or it was someone who sends text messages more than e-mail and has lapsed into the lazy ways of brevity.

We have two NCOs in my office: one of them would send an e-mail like this just because he doesn't communicate well. The other one would have sent you 500 words saying the same thing for the same reason.

[marct]

Hi Steve,

I would expect that you ran into the bureaucratic "drone" who'd seen that same question a few times before (or just got his/her ass chewed by the boss for something or another) and decided to send a petty sounding result. Or it was someone who sends text messages more than e-mail and has lapsed into the lazy ways of brevity.

We have two NCOs in my office: one of them would send an e-mail like this just because he doesn't communicate well. The other one would have sent you 500 words saying the same thing for the same reason.

LOLOL - Maybe we should produce a series of boilerplate for drones . Even something like "Dear Dr. X. thank you for your inteterest in ________, but I am afraid that the position must be held by a US citizen without exception." Then they could just cut and paste the response and fill in the blanks.

Marc

[Sargent]

Hi Dr. Jack and Rob,





I really don't have much of a problem looking past an instance of poor protocol, per se; I'm not really that touchy about it . As for "considering the option", well, that was actually what the email was about - all of the job ads I have seen at the various military colleges state "must be an American citizen", and I was asking if Canadians could be considered. The response was rather emphatic:



I was honestly wondering if the person responding didn't like Canadians or, maybe, just thought that I was being "uppity" for even asking .

On the whole, I would be quite happy to go for a position in one of the military colleges (as would my wife who is an American citizen) but, as you can guess, the response I got was somewhat off-putting.

Marc

Marc --

Unfortunately, the service schools (undergrad through Command & Shaft) most often do not hire foreigners -- another Canadian friend of mine ran up against this, despite having a good friend at Leavenworth, eg. I'm not sure about the policy for the War Colleges. Part of the problem is that some of the work inevitably involves classified/sensitive information, and there's very little wiggle room around the clearance issues. (It can be done, but it must come from way up on high.) Nothing to do with Canadians, just a basic yea or nay based on citizenship.

As for West Point, they can be iffy on the correspondence -- I know people who have received no response from them at all. I'd take the "Mr." as an honest oversight, and the "terseness" for that basic military "get to the point and don't elaborate much" characteristic.

As for the "title" issue, as I am still a candidate, I get very nervous when folks start referring to me as "Dr." -- no, no, no, I haven't _earned_ it yet, and I don't want to be jinxed! Of course, I'm not so emphatic when I point out the confusion.