What is the forum rule regarding linking to cables in relevant threads?
Example: several cables exist regarding Brazilian COIN efforts in Rio’s favela’s - an issue of interest to several forum members. Is it acceptable to post them in the Rio thread?
A fulltext search engine for the cables that have been released, is available at: www.cablesearch.org
Dunno. That's up to Bill or Dave
I'll ask. In the meantime, please do not link 'em.
Thanks for asking.
Linking to Wikileaks or other sites with the Cables.
Please do not link directly to the actual cables. There are many here who operate on .gov or .mil computers and if they inadvertently go to a cable from this site then they and potentially this site could have a major problem.Originally Posted by bourbon
If there is any question about whether the actual cables are at a site, a flag similar to “CAUTION – possible links to Wikileaks. US Government policy prohibits official users from accessing”, or similar is desirable.
Whatever any of us thinks of the US Government policy on prohibiting the assessing those cables they are apparently serious about it. I personally disagree with it and with the over politicization for US domestic political purposes of the entire issue. It is much wing flapping about very little. Regardless, the US Government and the US Media are at this time in the de rigueur over reaction mode.
Due to that over reaction and the probable sensible policies that generally get settled upon after the initial flurry, it is not possible to establish a specific or firm policy that will foster the free interchange of ideas while not violating the current US Government policy whatever that may be. A site like cablesearch might be safe today but could be on the 'unacceptable' list of the Government policy tomorrow.
...............Please err on the side of caution in deference to those members who visit this site from .gov or .mil computers..............
...
cross posting from SWJ blog..
I visit this site to see what the saner end of the military-industrial complex is thinking and I am rarely disappointed in the quality of the opinions (as a lifelong left-liberal fellow traveller, I will be the first to admit that the quality of debate and data is much higher than that found on "my side" of the fence). But I am a little disappointed that so many good people are hyperventilating about wikileaks. I think the long term trajectory of our civilization (and yes, I said "our")is towards greater transparency and the first large country to get used to it may well be the United States and that is going to be a good thing. The ancient Chinese sages supposedly said that the sight of flowers and the sound of falling water are the only goods without admixture of evil, so expect some evil in this transparency, but all in all, it will be an improvement over the past. I think Julian Assange has done modern civilization a great service.
Understandable but a little context may help.
The hyperventilating is being done by the US Political class who believe (wrongly) that they must be seen as 'Doing something.' They lie so much to get elected that they continue to do that at any opportunity -- what better lie than to fulminate at someone, not an American that we probably cannot touch, deter or harm? You'd think they'd realize that foolishness is not helpful to the nation (on an international basis in particular) but they aren't concerned about that, they are concerned only with domestic politics and their reelection...
They are aided in this charade -- and that's what it is -- by the US Media, most of whom are little more than gossip mongers and to whom Julian A. has given a trove of gossip which they must try to embellish and make into the major story that it is not. So there's a whole lot of sound and fury in Washington and the media but almost none on the ground in the broader US.
This site is heavily populated with people who do or did work for or with the US Government. Most of those people are not particularly concerned with what the leak did to the US and I think a good many disagree with much of the Government's pronouncements and policy on the issue. However, they are totally hacked off at Manning (or whoever...) and Assange because they know those folks just made their jobs much harder.
What should happen is the leaker should be found and shot -- we won't do that, not the American way. We do not punish the guilty. We punish the innocent. What we will do is set more snoopers about, tighten all the bureaucratic rules, forbid the use of thumb drives, CDs or removable media, make it incredibly difficult to exchange information, initiate new and burdensome rules for clearances and more. Much more. Much, much more -- and it's already started.
So the guys are mad at Manning or whoever for stealing the material but they are really mad at Assange for making their jobs difficult.
On your broader philosophical note, two points. Transparency is a good thing, no question, yet there is also a need for discretion. There is and has been a natural tension between those two necessities and the preponderance of value has tilted back and forth. I agree that more transparency is probably a better alternative and that the natural penchant for bureaucracies to attempt to hide their shortfalls needs to be removed. I also agree the trajectory recently has been and is toward more transparency. However, I'm not at all convinced the Wikileaks modus is a good way to speed up or improve on that trajectory.
I'm not sure Assange has done a service. Governments around the world will do the same thing that the US is doing right now -- tighten the rules. I suspect you'll see less rather than more transparency.
The pendulum is likely to reverse its swing as a result of this...
My question is why aren't these strong and brave people at State and the CIA not going after New York Times, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, Le Monde and El Pais as well? After all are they not publishing this information as well?
Here's one that will make you laugh till you cry...
US looks into cyber attacks on WikiLeaks foes
From the Keystone Cops:
What I am missing here is news about the investigation into the DDoS relating to WikiLeaks related websites?The Justice Department is looking into cyber attacks on opponents of WikiLeaks and companies that have stopped doing business with it, Attorney General Eric Holder said Thursday.
It may be missed on some but the absolute hypocrisy of the "if I do it its OK but if you do the same its a crime" by another US government department is just one more example of how the actions of the USG make the US a laughing stock in the eyes of the world. Yes, even in the eyes of Micky Mouse third world countries.
What about this then?
Hows this for incompetence leading to a serious risk of a breach of military security in Helmand?
Afghanistan military secrets sold for £18.87 on eBay after army officer dumped laptop in a skip
So what to do? Shoot the guy? String him up? Boot him out of the army? Slap him on the wrist? Forget about it... its no big deal?...Files – none of which required passwords - included troop numbers, patrol details, ammunition stock lists and locations of every police command post in a Helmand town.
The shocked buyer, who handed the laptop to the MoD, also found it contained hundreds of photos, along with names and other details, of locals risking their lives by joined the Afghan National Police and Afghan National Army.
Also stored on the Toshiba Satellite A30 laptop was a copy of the Afghan National Police’s tactical handbook, giving details of every aspect of how to take on and defeat the enemy, including how to identify IED roadside bombs...
Freedom of the press, JMA. Unique American concept. No Official Secrets Act.
The system goes after the person or person responsible for the leaks. It fulminates but does and probably can do little about the ex post facto disseminator. It can and will do little or nothing to the media for publishing what the first two made available.
One issue that raises is whether or not Wikileaks qualifies as "the press" under US law. Not yet known and it may or may not, the Courts will decide if or when it comes to a test. If it does, then Assange will be protected under US law.Probably due to the impact on commerce or lack thereof, don't you think? Early days yet, more to come.What I am missing here is news about the investigation into the DDoS relating to WikiLeaks related websites?
I note that US is not the only nation pursuing the hackettes (LINK). There'll be more. I think it has to do with the number of people affected more than any conscious desire to be unfair in prosecution of offenses. In similar offenses by two opposing parties, the effort to mitigate the greatest potential harm to others will always determine which offender gets the most and earliest attention.
But then, you knew that...The actions of the USG or the reports by the US news media? The latter rarely know precisely what the former is really doing and they report a lot of gossip and speculation -- and you fall for it.It may be missed on some but the absolute hypocrisy of the "if I do it its OK but if you do the same its a crime" by another US government department is just one more example of how the actions of the USG make the US a laughing stock in the eyes of the world. Yes, even in the eyes of Micky Mouse third world countries.
So, apparently do many of the nations you unfairly deride.
In fairness to you and to others, I certainly acknowledge our news media, by and large, is quite poor and does indeed make a laughing stock of the US in general for those elsewhere who do not know better. The actuality is that we do bumble a bit but our media can't even report that properly. They are or should be the laughing stock -- as could also be said of those who propose serious comment based on inadequate information, media speculation, ignorance and personal bias.Well that is certainly progress! Long overdue, too...OK, so now I am learning "US think".Nah, not 'only bad,' simply more relevant and more in line with national interests. Concern for others is one of our better features but we also -- like many -- have a strong sense of self preservation and more concern for friends and relatives than for strangers. Is that unusual?So doing something that will/may/possibly/at a stretch put lives at risk is only bad if they are US lives and the lives of their agents/mercenaries/snitches?
It looks as though you're not really learning "US think," rather that you only think you are doing so. One could be tempted to point out you might benefit from learning certainly much more if not all about the US instead of selecting snippets appropriate to your penchant for making spurious comments and dropping innuendo bombs, then perhaps those would have more telling impact ...
Nah... it appears that Bradley Manning is the prime suspect. Assange and the newspapers are merely receivers of stolen property.
The Pentagon Papers incident gave USG and indication of how difficult taking on the press legally is (also the New York Times).
So bullies and cowards that they are they go after the little guy who did not steal the data.
This is the truth of the matter.
...in the meantime his case has been so publicly prejudiced that like Ellsberg he can never get a fair trial in the US.One issue that raises is whether or not Wikileaks qualifies as "the press" under US law. Not yet known and it may or may not, the Courts will decide if or when it comes to a test. If it does, then Assange will be protected under US law.Probably due to the impact on commerce or lack thereof, don't you think? Early days yet, more to come.
As to US law and the rule of law with the opening of Guantanamo Bay US justice is not held in very high esteem around the world.
One minute the US is condemning China for hacking Google and censoring the Internet the next they are doing similar. Does anyone in the current Administration believe that they are doing any more than bringing the US and its people into international disrepute?I note that US is not the only nation pursuing the hackettes (LINK). There'll be more. I think it has to do with the number of people affected more than any conscious desire to be unfair in prosecution of offenses. In similar offenses by two opposing parties, the effort to mitigate the greatest potential harm to others will always determine which offender gets the most and earliest attention.
No Ken, what I see is government out of control. Maybe less criminal than Russia or China nevertheless out of control.But then, you knew that...The actions of the USG or the reports by the US news media? The latter rarely know precisely what the former is really doing and they report a lot of gossip and speculation -- and you fall for it.
...and sadly there is a tendency of a certain section of the US population to try to block out the reality of what is happening in their government.
I don't deride people even the sheeple of any country... but am quite rightly critical of the US and Brit governments especially the State Department and their partner in crime across the pond the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.So, apparently do many of the nations you unfairly deride.
National Interest? Provide a definition of that if you will. It seems that the misuse of term is used to cover any act from murder to torture to... just about anything. Not nice people. I don't know how you tolerate it.fairness to you and to others, I certainly acknowledge our news media, by and large, is quite poor and does indeed make a laughing stock of the US in general for those elsewhere who do not know better. The actuality is that we do bumble a bit but our media can't even report that properly. They are or should be the laughing stock -- as could also be said of those who propose serious comment based on inadequate information, media speculation, ignorance and personal bias.Well that is certainly progress! Long overdue, too...Nah, not 'only bad,' simply more relevant and more in line with national interests. Concern for others is one of our better features but we also -- like many -- have a strong sense of self preservation and more concern for friends and relatives than for strangers. Is that unusual?
The people of the world can see what is going on. The people of the US could see what is going on but they are being told that it is unpatriotic or even treasonous to challenge what whichever administration is abusing the system at the time and flick over to the sports channel, have another beer (or maybe a double bourbon) and pretend everything would be just dandy if only someone took Assange out and closed down his website.It looks as though you're not really learning "US think," rather that you only think you are doing so. One could be tempted to point out you might benefit from learning certainly much more if not all about the US instead of selecting snippets appropriate to your penchant for making spurious comments and dropping innuendo bombs, then perhaps those would have more telling impact ...
The people of the world have probably given up on the US as so-called leader of the free-world but that should not deter the citizens of the US from retaking control of their own country. Maybe they need an Oliver Cromwell figure?
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