Experts Advise Bush Not to Reduce Troops

[Merv Benson]

President Talibani, in discussing the ISG report, said the big problem was that we were training troops who were loyal to entities other than the government, be they tribal or clerical. What he was implying was that rather than pushing people through the training process more care needed to be given to the vetting process. I would add that once trained those who demonstrate the loyalty problem needed to be weeded out. Too often people focus only on the training of the troops and do not focus enough on the infrastructure of NCO's and mid level offices that are needed to make the troops effective. It will take more time to build that infrastructure than it takes to train the troops.

[jcustis]

President Talibani, in discussing the ISG report, said the big problem was that we were training troops who were loyal to entities other than the government, be they tribal or clerical. What he was implying was that rather than pushing people through the training process more care needed to be given to the vetting process. I would add that once trained those who demonstrate the loyalty problem needed to be weeded out. Too often people focus only on the training of the troops and do not focus enough on the infrastructure of NCO's and mid level offices that are needed to make the troops effective. It will take more time to build that infrastructure than it takes to train the troops.

Talibani was right, because without good vetting, the amred forces are only going to be a house of cards. The problem is with the vetting itself. The task is so ponderous that I think we are simply doing the best we can, and not trying to develop revolutionary ways to improve it.

[aktarian]

President Talibani, in discussing the ISG report, said the big problem was that we were training troops who were loyal to entities other than the government, be they tribal or clerical. What he was implying was that rather than pushing people through the training process more care needed to be given to the vetting process. I would add that once trained those who demonstrate the loyalty problem needed to be weeded out. Too often people focus only on the training of the troops and do not focus enough on the infrastructure of NCO's and mid level offices that are needed to make the troops effective. It will take more time to build that infrastructure than it takes to train the troops.

Though the question is how to prevent infiltrations from various militias and insurgents? Who is going to vet recruits? If Americans do they have the knowledge to do it? If Iraqis can they be trusted (who is going to vet the veters )

[jcustis]

I have several humorous (to the point of tragedy) stories about dealing with this exact subject. I'll try to throw one out this weekend.

[Jedburgh]

..........

[Bill Moore]

I recall that we did have a vetting process initially, but when our exit plan equated to so many Iraqi units trained (numbers = success) the vetting process was tossed out the window. I'll have to go back and dig up some old articles for supporting data. However, like one of you posted, I wonder who we go about vetting civilians in a nation where we have little knowledge on the average Joe. This is a critical small wars task that we should futher investigate.

Addressing the comment on developing NCOs, while I agree that NCOs are critical in our Army, very few Armies outside of the West utilize their NCOs the way we do. From one aspect that is fine with me, since I am confident that is what allows us to kick their butts. We have competent tactical leadership at the lowest levels (fire team). Getting back to the issue at hand, I think attempting to impose a Western like NCO Corp on the Iraqi Army violates one the COIN tennants, which is we shouldn't train their Army to look like ours. Culture plays a huge role in command relationships, and in some cultures super NCOs are not accepted. We can tilt against windmills, or we can adapt our training to fit their culture. Developing an NCO Corps that is "culturally" acceptable will take years, regardless of the fact that we have proven the effectiveness of our NCO system.

[jcustis]

Bill, you just shot a three-pointer with that one...