The Trump impact on US policy

[Azor]

Firstly, you are ignoring several issues with the CIA’s leaked conclusion as to Russian intent:

• The CIA’s mission is foreign not domestic
• The CIA is not the technical leader in SIGINT/cyber
• How would the CIA have more insight than the FBI, given the latter’s mission?
• How would the CIA have more insight than the NSA, given the latter’s capabilities?
• How can you dismiss the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by 4 former Directors of the CIA and 2 former officers?
• How can you dismiss the support for Hillary Clinton by the current Director or the fact that the Deputy Directors are political operatives?

Secondly, WikiLeaks’s primary release of information (the DNC e-mail correspondence) was prior to the Democratic Primary. The release on Podesta’s e-mails were in October, but had no noticeable effect, given the uproar over the Access Hollywood tape.

Thirdly, I am glad that you are acknowledging that WikiLeaks has ammunition with which to attack both Trump and the GOP.

Fourth, we can agree that Putin wants to undermine American democracy, particularly in order to legitimize Russia’s own “managed democracy”.

Fifth, you will have to post sources on the hacks on the DOD and US power grid in 2015.

Lastly, I am also glad that you are no longer insinuating that Trump is a Russian agent or that his election victory was due to Russian interference.

[OUTLAW 09]

Firstly, you are ignoring several issues with the CIA’s leaked conclusion as to Russian intent:

• The CIA’s mission is foreign not domestic
• The CIA is not the technical leader in SIGINT/cyber
• How would the CIA have more insight than the FBI, given the latter’s mission?
• How would the CIA have more insight than the NSA, given the latter’s capabilities?
• How can you dismiss the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by 4 former Directors of the CIA and 2 former officers?
• How can you dismiss the support for Hillary Clinton by the current Director or the fact that the Deputy Directors are political operatives?

Secondly, WikiLeaks’s primary release of information (the DNC e-mail correspondence) was prior to the Democratic Primary. The release on Podesta’s e-mails were in October, but had no noticeable effect, given the uproar over the Access Hollywood tape.

Thirdly, I am glad that you are acknowledging that WikiLeaks has ammunition with which to attack both Trump and the GOP.

Fourth, we can agree that Putin wants to undermine American democracy, particularly in order to legitimize Russia’s own “managed democracy”.

Fifth, you will have to post sources on the hacks on the DOD and US power grid in 2015.

Lastly, I am also glad that you are no longer insinuating that Trump is a Russian agent or that his election victory was due to Russian interference.

Azor...you must really do research on the IC.....

1. let us get the following out of the way and assume I am correct which BTW I am.......36% of ALL twitter social media proTrump and anti Clinton tweets came from the Russian backed Macedonia trolling company...36%.....

We are still comparing the data but it appears that they were a total of over 404 "fake news sites in the US"...all feeding off of three key fake sites that even Fox and company were even quoting....

AND many of those supporting Trump stated publicly they got their info from social media

2. an American...at least he claims he is one....sitting in France and adamantly claiming he is anti Clinton drove a "fake news site" that was picked up by over these 404 proTrump blogsites...fake news sites....Infowars...Alex Jones...and Brietbart.com.

SO in theory that you think I have not abandoned the idea the Trump was largely supported and helped by Russia...think again...he was in fact supported by Putin and Russia did influence the election....via propaganda...disinformation...proTrump trolling and fake news sites....

You really do need to get a job at both CIA and NSA....yes CIA handles foreign vs the domestic side by the FBI...BUT these Russian hacks and info warfare ALL came from outside the US NOT inside the US.....AND the FBI does not have the overseas collection abilities of the CIA nor can they confirm or deny without assistance from the CIA/NSA...

If you knew the IC then you would have often seen NSA data being used to back up CIA information on the concept of confirm or deny...this allows the NSA to remain in the shadows and not have to release their sources of their information

NOW go back to the Mother Jones article concerning the Russian active measures...THAT got shot to hell by the then MSM and so called experts because they did not want to release the sources of the information BEFORE the election....

THAT information was in fact reconfirmed by the CIA...as it was built off of verified intelligence passed to them from foreign sources...

Ever notice that that particular article has not resurfaced after the CIA report?

IT was used to signal to the CIA.... yes we have info if you are interested and it is verified...and in this business if it is verified you are home free in the HUMINT world.....

BTW...at one time Trump was claiming he had over 280 US Generals and senior officers supporting him BUT he never did reveal their names did he??????...at least those supporting Clinton allowed their names to be printed....

OR was Trump lying about those Generals????

BTW all political nominations must still adhere to the released internal research and reports...BUT this is important ....all political nominees do not and cannot influence the final intel product.....as the reports are conducted by true civil service and contractor types and politics are forbidden in the analysis world....UNLESS you are a Cmdr at CENTCOM using undo influence....which is a military problem....

I assume WL has ammunition on just about anyone and or anything Russia has hacked in the last ten years especially what Snowdon fed them...

BUT you raise an interesting question.... WHY were they one sided and not two sided and release all on all DNC and RNC?????? CORE Question...

DoD hack was in 2015 and the news article carried here in SWC...the power grid hack customer has not authorized the release of the information under non disclosure....

AND yes again I am stating Russia via Putin did influence the Trump election....

FROM today....polling is indicating a full 52% of Trump voters fully believe the Trump lies that he won the general election....right now he is approximately 3M votes behind in the general election numbers.....THAT is not a "win"

He also tweeted that he has a record Electoral College votes...ACTUALLY another lie.... he is 46th in all time votes....NOT the largest as he alludes to in his tweets....

I can post those tweets of his where he alludes to this very thing....

Azor.....BTW...notice how erratic Trump has been with his tweets over the Chinese taking of the research drone

In Beijing on Sunday, the Global Times, a Communist Party-controlled newspaper known for its nationalist town, poked fun at the mixed messages coming from the United States.

“Before Trump’s generous announcement that he didn’t want the drone back, the Pentagon had already announced publicly that they have asked China to return the ‘illegally seized’ [unmanned underwater vehicle] through appropriate governmental channels,” the paper wrote.#“We don’t know, after seeing Trump’s new tweets, if the Pentagon should feel boggled.”

[OUTLAW 09]

Haaretz.com
✔
@haaretzcom
Why Trump's pick for Israel envoy is anti-Israeli | Gideon Levy
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.759618#

[OUTLAW 09]

Azor...you must really do research on the IC.....

1. let us get the following out of the way and assume I am correct which BTW I am.......36% of ALL twitter social media proTrump and anti Clinton tweets came from the Russian backed Macedonia trolling company...36%.....

We are still comparing the data but it appears that they were a total of over 404 "fake news sites in the US"...all feeding off of three key fake sites that even Fox and company were even quoting....

AND many of those supporting Trump stated publicly they got their info from social media

2. an American...at least he claims he is one....sitting in France and adamantly claiming he is anti Clinton drove a "fake news site" that was picked up by over these 404 proTrump blogsites...fake news sites....Infowars...Alex Jones...and Brietbart.com.

SO in theory that you think I have not abandoned the idea the Trump was largely supported and helped by Russia...think again...he was in fact supported by Putin and Russia did influence the election....via propaganda...disinformation...proTrump trolling and fake news sites....

You really do need to get a job at both CIA and NSA....yes CIA handles foreign vs the domestic side by the FBI...BUT these Russian hacks and info warfare ALL came from outside the US NOT inside the US.....AND the FBI does not have the overseas collection abilities of the CIA nor can they confirm or deny without assistance from the CIA/NSA...

If you knew the IC then you would have often seen NSA data being used to back up CIA information on the concept of confirm or deny...this allows the NSA to remain in the shadows and not have to release their sources of their information

NOW go back to the Mother Jones article concerning the Russian active measures...THAT got shot to hell by the then MSM and so called experts because they did not want to release the sources of the information BEFORE the election....

THAT information was in fact reconfirmed by the CIA...as it was built off of verified intelligence passed to them from foreign sources...

Ever notice that that particular article has not resurfaced after the CIA report?

IT was used to signal to the CIA.... yes we have info if you are interested and it is verified...and in this business if it is verified you are home free in the HUMINT world.....

BTW...at one time Trump was claiming he had over 280 US Generals and senior officers supporting him BUT he never did reveal their names did he??????...at least those supporting Clinton allowed their names to be printed....

OR was Trump lying about those Generals????

BTW all political nominations must still adhere to the released internal research and reports...BUT this is important ....all political nominees do not and cannot influence the final intel product.....as the reports are conducted by true civil service and contractor types and politics are forbidden in the analysis world....UNLESS you are a Cmdr at CENTCOM using undo influence....which is a military problem....

I assume WL has ammunition on just about anyone and or anything Russia has hacked in the last ten years especially what Snowdon fed them...

BUT you raise an interesting question.... WHY were they one sided and not two sided and release all on all DNC and RNC?????? CORE Question...

DoD hack was in 2015 and the news article carried here in SWC...the power grid hack customer has not authorized the release of the information under non disclosure....

AND yes again I am stating Russia via Putin did influence the Trump election....

FROM today....polling is indicating a full 52% of Trump voters fully believe the Trump lies that he won the general election....right now he is approximately 3M votes behind in the general election numbers.....THAT is not a "win"

He also tweeted that he has a record Electoral College votes...ACTUALLY another lie.... he is 46th in all time votes....NOT the largest as he alludes to in his tweets....

I can post those tweets of his where he alludes to this very thing....

Azor.....BTW...notice how erratic Trump has been with his tweets over the Chinese taking of the research drone

Azor......just from today........

Last night's electricity blackout in Kiev, Ukraine was caused by a cyber attack:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/541917
In Russian.....

[OUTLAW 09]

BahamasLeaks document highlights Rex Tillerson’s business dealings with Russia
http://bit.ly/2gORWyJ

Leak reveals Rex Tillerson is director of Bahamas-based US-Russian oil company -
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...=share_btn_tw#

The document showing Tillerson’s directorship of Exxon Neftegas was among more than 12 million leaked files that were provided anonymously to Süddeutsche Zeitung and then shared with ICIJ, resulting in the Panama Papers and Bahamas Leaks investigations.

Question is, did @realDonaldTrump know? And what gems have the Panama Papers yet to reveal about PEOTUS?

[Azor]

Azor...you must really do research on the IC...You really do need to get a job at both CIA and NSA....yes CIA handles foreign vs the domestic side by the FBI...BUT these Russian hacks and info warfare ALL came from outside the US NOT inside the US.....AND the FBI does not have the overseas collection abilities of the CIA nor can they confirm or deny without assistance from the CIA/NSA....

It disappoints me when you start to get personal. It is also amusing considering that a former intelligence analyst who served in both defense and private roles, has Top Secret security clearance, and who served in Afghanistan, agrees with me.

Following your logic, the NSA and ODNI let the CIA speak for it, and the FBI allowed details of an active investigation to be leaked through the CIA. Does this illegal conspiracy to get the truth to the American people make sense, or does it make more sense that the Director of the CIA is playing politics?

You have yet to address any of my points regarding the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by almost all of the retired intelligence and national security community, which you yourself lauded months ago as a demonstration of her worthiness. Now that she has lost, this community is suddenly apolitical and beyond reproach.

We have witnessed the politicization of intelligence to support military operations from Vietnam on, most recently during Operation Inherent Resolve.

…36% of ALL twitter social media proTrump and anti Clinton tweets came from the Russian backed Macedonia trolling company...36%...We are still comparing the data but it appears that they were a total of over 404 "fake news sites in the US"...all feeding off of three key fake sites that even Fox and company were even quoting…AND many of those supporting Trump stated publicly they got their info from social media…2. an American...at least he claims he is one....sitting in France and adamantly claiming he is anti Clinton drove a "fake news site" that was picked up by over these 404 proTrump blogsites...fake news sites....Infowars...Alex Jones...and Brietbart.com.

• Which stories were fabricated, exactly?
• How can you determine the impact of misinformation on those people that voted for Trump?
• Are you claiming that misinformation was absent from presidential election campaigns prior to 2016 and that it is solely from Russia?

SO in theory that you think I have not abandoned the idea the Trump was largely supported and helped by Russia...think again...he was in fact supported by Putin and Russia did influence the election....via propaganda...disinformation...pro-Trump trolling and fake news sites...

There is no evidence that Russian interference had a significant impact on the election. You continue to question Trump’s legitimacy because of your preferences for defense and foreign policy.

Hillary Clinton was the establishment candidate who had the political, financial and security elites on her side, including in the GOP. Trump won in an upset, fighting an uphill battle against his own party, backed by significant grassroots support, and yet now he is suddenly an agent of the Kremlin.

It is curious that you live in Germany and yet deny that Russia has any legitimate grievances with the United States or NATO. Had it not been for the Soviet Union and fear of Communism, Germany would have been more likely to have been subject to the Morgenthau Plan rather than the Marshall Plan.

As China becomes the primary threat to the United States, there will have to be rapprochement with Russia...

Given the sore losing on the part of Democrats, it seems that Russia has indeed discredited American democracy

[OUTLAW 09]

It disappoints me when you start to get personal. It is also amusing considering that a former intelligence analyst who served in both defense and private roles, has Top Secret security clearance, and who served in Afghanistan, agrees with me.

Following your logic, the NSA and ODNI let the CIA speak for it, and the FBI allowed details of an active investigation to be leaked through the CIA. Does this illegal conspiracy to get the truth to the American people make sense, or does it make more sense that the Director of the CIA is playing politics?

You have yet to address any of my points regarding the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by almost all of the retired intelligence and national security community, which you yourself lauded months ago as a demonstration of her worthiness. Now that she has lost, this community is suddenly apolitical and beyond reproach.

We have witnessed the politicization of intelligence to support military operations from Vietnam on, most recently during Operation Inherent Resolve.

• Which stories were fabricated, exactly?
• How can you determine the impact of misinformation on those people that voted for Trump?
• Are you claiming that misinformation was absent from presidential election campaigns prior to 2016 and that it is solely from Russia?

There is no evidence that Russian interference had a significant impact on the election. You continue to question Trump’s legitimacy because of your preferences for defense and foreign policy.

Hillary Clinton was the establishment candidate who had the political, financial and security elites on her side, including in the GOP. Trump won in an upset, fighting an uphill battle against his own party, backed by significant grassroots support, and yet now he is suddenly an agent of the Kremlin.

It is curious that you live in Germany and yet deny that Russia has any legitimate grievances with the United States or NATO. Had it not been for the Soviet Union and fear of Communism, Germany would have been more likely to have been subject to the Morgenthau Plan rather than the Marshall Plan.

As China becomes the primary threat to the United States, there will have to be rapprochement with Russia...

Given the sore losing on the part of Democrats, it seems that Russia has indeed discredited American democracy

This comment has actually now convinced me that you truly do not fully understand the Russian political warfare being carried out against the US using non linear warfare...

Since you have been following the Ukrainian thread the last two years you would have seen my postings of the open source analysis done by GlobalVoices on the proRussian trolling on just twitter.....and how their network link analysis did in fact point to the actual twitter accounts driving over 1500 further accounts and what topics they were driving...

That same software allows for network link analysis on virtually all social media and it allows one to determine who started a particular event and who linked into it and who pushed it along....actually quite interesting to see the analysis....

Unless you fully understand how info warfare and cyber warfare interact with each other ...it is a waste of time to continue.....

BY the way I judge the impact of a particular fake news story by the number of 1) retweets...2) how many social media accounts picked it up..3) did it get picked up by MSM and how many alt right and ultra conservative accounts picked it as well....AND does then that fake story get mentioned during interviews by Trump supporters...granted not scientific but enlightening nevertheless....MORE importantly how fast did it travel from being dropped as a fake news article and or comment to being picked up by MSM.....

EXAMPLE....CNN interviewed five Trump supporters that all "SWORE" that millions of illegal Mexicans had voted in California ...BECAUSE California had passed a law allowing them to vote and they were then bussed in to vote....WHEN pushed that there was no such law/never was such a law and it was a social media myth...they basically refused to accept that it was a lie...ONE person even stated she had read on social media that it had been said even by Obama...when referring to the CA law....

EXAMPLE: there was a massive myth that Clinton/Democracts were involved in a child porno ring being run out of a pizza shop in DC....this myth circulated for a three full months on the ultra right social media sites....then got picked up by Infowars and Alex Jones who pushed out a video to his readers on the subject...then it got picked up by Brietbart.com....EVEN the DC Police chief denied the story as a fake TWICE....and not true

THEN a NC resident decided he wanted to investigate this story and get to the bottom of it..he carried a loaded rifle into the pizza shop and fired off a round and then was totally surprised to find out the story was a myth....when he was arrested for endangering the customers.

THEN Jones decided he might be better off deleting his own video which triggered this random act of violence tied to a fake news story from the ultra right...

BTW you truly do not fully understand just how intel reports are created..shared and used to support the releasing of information BETWEEN the various agencies....simply to avoid having to reveal sources and methods....

I understand that it is hard to believe that our newly elected president who still has not released his tax records...who has not divested himself from his businesses and who has a massive conflict of interest looming over him and who repeatedly lied via his own tweets could have connections to Russia and or received assistance directly from Putin....

Will be interested to see what comes out of the coming Senate investigation on the Russian hacks and who was behind it....

Until this occurs this comment thread is really going nowhere fast...

[OUTLAW 09]

Trump's Babysitters tones down skepticism on Russia hacking evidence
http://www.wsj.com/articles/priebus-...ns-1482084741#

How Putin’s Fake News Machine Spread From Ukraine Across the#Globe
Outrageous media hoaxes, Internet trolls and repression at home are all key instruments in the Kremlin’s political tool#box
https://warisboring.com/how-putins-f...919#.fqiavxv3i

“Trump tends to echo words of the last person with whom he spoke, making direct access to him even more valuable.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....ea0db079e3a3#
…

[Azor]

This comment has actually now convinced me that you truly do not fully understand the Russian political warfare being carried out against the US using non linear warfare...

I fully understand Russia’s information campaign against the West.

On the one hand, you have accused the Republicans and Trump of ignoring or dismissing evidence of Russian interference in the media reporting and social media discussion of the election campaign, an accusation that has merit. On the other hand, you yourself are ignoring or dismissing the Democrats’ attempts to blame Hillary Clinton’s defeat on Russia, when there is no evidence that Russian efforts were decisive.

The fact is that there is reasonable suspicion that the WH and DOJ colluded to help Hillary Clinton win the election and that the WH and CIA have colluded to insinuate that Trump’s victory is illegitimate.

For many months now, you have derided Trump as a charlatan and threat to the national security of the United States. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that others currently serving in the intelligence, justice and national security communities agreed with you, and attempted to either sabotage Trump or aid Hillary out of conviction.

BY the way I judge the impact of a particular fake news story by the number of 1) retweets...2) how many social media accounts picked it up..3) did it get picked up by MSM and how many alt right and ultra conservative accounts picked it as well....AND does then that fake story get mentioned during interviews by Trump supporters...granted not scientific but enlightening nevertheless....MORE importantly how fast did it travel from being dropped as a fake news article and or comment to being picked up by MSM...

Yet these people were not blank canvasses upon which the Russians could paint any picture they chose. Many already believed that:

• Planned Parenthood was conspiring to sell fetal body parts
• Obama was not born in the United States
• Obama was secretly Muslim
• Obama was racist towards whites
• Obama hated law enforcement and encouraged killing them
• Obama encouraged riots in Ferguson and elsewhere
• The Clinton Foundation was a slush fund and part of the Clintons’ net worth
• Obama and Hillary wanted to ban and confiscate guns
• The Democrats wanted to amnesty millions of illegals to gain their votes
• Hillary transported weapons and jihadis from Libya and deployed them in Syria against the government
• Hillary deliberately allowed the Americans in Benghazi to die

None of these people were interested in examining the veracity of these claims. They simply wanted to reinforce what they already believed.

The arguments over voter fraud were ridiculous as identification at the polling station and registration are two very different things.

I also saw Democratic supporters spreading fake news that Trump was going to deport Muslim Americans and non-whites, that Melania was an illegal herself, that Trump owed billions to Russians and Chinese banks.

Ultimately, Russia helped amplify existing sentiments, but the demographics of Trump's voters were normal Republican shares of conservatives, moderates, liberals, independents, whites, etc.

I understand that it is hard to believe that our newly elected president who still has not released his tax records...who has not divested himself from his businesses and who has a massive conflict of interest looming over him and who repeatedly lied via his own tweets could have connections to Russia and or received assistance directly from Putin...

Both candidates had baggage and conflicts of interest. If Putin was truly determined that Trump should be president, he would have been covert about it. The most effective Russian operation was the WikiLeaks release of DNC e-mails (up to May 2016), which was done prior to the convention and clearly intended to increase Sanders’ odds of being nominated.

Trump was already investigated by the FBI. Or are you claiming that Comey ignored Trump’s ties to Russia and sabotaged Hillary with his letter to Congress?

What also did Hillary in was the fact that the third party vote was 3X higher than in 2012 and 2008, and even double that of 2000...

Will be interested to see what comes out of the coming Senate investigation on the Russian hacks and who was behind it...Until this occurs this comment thread is really going nowhere fast...

I don’t see it getting much further than partisan politics…