Weapns MTX in Iraq

[slapout9]

Stan, my source is a structural engineer that is building an addition to our hospital. My original highlighted statement came from him and my 30 second engineering class. I then went back and explained the whole problem to him. His response was that springs when first compressed "do" shrink a little. This is called the "spring set" after that, fatigue and final failure are caused by reasons you listed above and not from extended compression. Because of the initial spring set may be unknown to the shooter it could cause a failure to feed but there are a lot of variables to figure in. My engineer believes that spring set and manufacturer quality determine if you should load or not load the magazine to full capacity. Any reputable manufacturer would be fine to load to full capacity, if there is any doubt short load it by one round until you can get a better magazine.

[Stan]

Stan, my source is a structural engineer that is building an addition to our hospital. My original highlighted statement came from him and my 30 second engineering class. I then went back and explained the whole problem to him. His response was that springs when first compressed "do" shrink a little. This is called the "spring set" after that, fatigue and final failure are caused by reasons you listed above and not from extended compression. Because of the initial spring set may be unknown to the shooter it could cause a failure to feed but there are a lot of variables to figure in. My engineer believes that spring set and manufacturer quality determine if you should load or not load the magazine to full capacity. Any reputable manufacturer would be fine to load to full capacity, if there is any doubt short load it by one round until you can get a better magazine.

Thanks, Slapout.
I don't really believe this Bravo Sierra too much. As I posted earlier, since childhood I've relaxed my mag's springs and cleaned them.
Wilson's .45 mags cost 35 bucks each, and the 7 or 8 that I have are from 1987.

No junk for this dude

Still relax the springs and clean the mags after each and every range outing.

[120mm]

And, in the end, regarding "spring set" and whether leaving mags loaded is bad for the spring or not shouldn't matter, as you have to unload the mag anyway, to do proper magazine maintenance.

What I'm still geeking about is how the M16 is actually MORE reliable than the AK or M14 in dust and sand, provided you treat it right. (Because with the dust cover closed, mag inserted and a muzzle cap on, it is functionally a sealed system.) And how the command policy of carrying without an inserted magazine as well as ignoring "shoot thru" muzzle caps contributes to reliability problems.

[carl]

Thank you all for the information. I didn't know most of it. Especially the fact that the M-4 can be more reliable than an AK in some conditions.

Now I have to see if we can get some muzzle caps and something other than a magazine to place in the magazine well. Range time too, few of the flight crews have fired the weapon on burst.

The thing that amazes me about all this is how people don't really seem to believe there is a war on, it can happen to them and they will try to kill you.

[Stan]

Hi 120 !
In response to your e-mails and posts - Overall I agree with the findings and reliability of the M16 (vs the AK) from SGM Grumpy.

I was stationed at White Sands, and a long time ago. Even then, we kept the dust cover closed and the RED hat on the flash suppressor (or shoot through cap..whatever). I was also stationed at Aberdeen and Edgewood proving grounds. Anything you can imagine being performed with weapons is done there.

Never a problem, even with the magazines. My preventative maintenance routine stems from childhood, shooting ranges, and of course the Army.

Is it just good Ju Ju or poppycock ? Who knows.
What I do know is, in 23 years of service I have never experienced problems with my M16s.

The Chinese AKs we could "obtain" in Zaire were just friggin junk. Even the ammo - it would fragment against a standard U.S. windshield barely leaving a scratch. For a .30 caliber round, not all that great.

In conclusion, I agree with your recent e-mail appraisal:

I think it is a very elegant solution as a combat rifle, all myths aside.

Regards, Stan

And, in the end, regarding "spring set" and whether leaving mags loaded is bad for the spring or not shouldn't matter, as you have to unload the mag anyway, to do proper magazine maintenance.

What I'm still geeking about is how the M16 is actually MORE reliable than the AK or M14 in dust and sand, provided you treat it right. (Because with the dust cover closed, mag inserted and a muzzle cap on, it is functionally a sealed system.) And how the command policy of carrying without an inserted magazine as well as ignoring "shoot thru" muzzle caps contributes to reliability problems.

[Small_Axe]

Hi 120 !
The Chinese AKs we could "obtain" in Zaire were just friggin junk. Even the ammo - it would fragment against a standard U.S. windshield barely leaving a scratch. For a .30 caliber round, not all that great.

I don't know about Zaire, but I think there are some cops in N. Hollywood that would disagree w/ the above statement about the AK round lacking power.

[Jedburgh]

I don't know about Zaire, but I think there are some cops in N. Hollywood that would disagree w/the above statement about the AK round lacking power.

Step back and re-read Stan's comment. It is not a statement about the stopping power of 7.62x39 in general - it is in regard to poorly manufactured ammunition in a specific setting. Given the world-wide proliferation of the AK design, there is no shortage of poorly made variants and crappy ammo; especially in the developing world.

Think before you type.

[Small_Axe]

Step back and re-read Stan's comment. It is not a statement about the stopping power of 7.62x39 in general - it is in regard to poorly manufactured ammunition in a specific setting. Given the world-wide proliferation of the AK design, there is no shortage of poorly made variants and crappy ammo; especially in the developing world.

Think before you type.

Okay, I re-read it. And to me it still sounds like he's talking about the AK's '.30 cal round' in general. People percieve things differently. Stan's lucky you're here to interpret his words.