AFRICOM and the perception mess

[JMA]

That's one of the problems Africom is trying to fix. They're trying to help host nations develop a professional military which doesn't committee genocide, rape or plan coups. The problem with that is sometimes (ok almost always) those "professional" military forces are turned against their own people. So once again it's a no-win for the US.

The experience so far is not good. See DRC training here

It is the religious/ethnic/tribal dynamics of most African countries that are not understood.

Heard on my grapevine recently that serving US officers have been traveling Africa (and Europe) and researching war in Africa and the use of indigenous troops (and possibly more). Accepting one has something to learn is certainly a step in the right direction (and makes for a nice change).

[Stan]

Hey JMA,
Some very good points and a rather sore one when trying to gather momentum.

Seven months ago our team also decided to make their African counterparts feel as much a part of the team as possible, and made sure that salaries and meals were part of the deal. It worked for the 6 months they were there, but leaving had some obvious ill effects. SIGH

At this point we decided to keep them all on the payroll and working independently. We're do for a quality control visit and let's see how well the equipment is maintained and how many hectares have been returned for agricultural use.

So, AFRICOM comes in theoretically speaking, discovers what everybody and his brother already know - that basic needs are not being met - and rape, pillage and plunder are the norm, and while being trained, the indigenous
personnel are fed and paid like normal people expect.

Exfil... See you later. What a strange concept with very good intentions !

I remain optimistic

The experience so far is not good. See DRC training here

It is the religious/ethnic/tribal dynamics of most African countries that are not understood.

Heard on my grapevine recently that serving US officers have been traveling Africa (and Europe) and researching war in Africa and the use of indigenous troops (and possibly more). Accepting one has something to learn is certainly a step in the right direction (and makes for a nice change).

[JMA]

Hey JMA,
Some very good points and a rather sore one when trying to gather momentum.

Seven months ago our team also decided to make their African counterparts feel as much a part of the team as possible, and made sure that salaries and meals were part of the deal. It worked for the 6 months they were there, but leaving had some obvious ill effects. SIGH

At this point we decided to keep them all on the payroll and working independently. We're do for a quality control visit and let's see how well the equipment is maintained and how many hectares have been returned for agricultural use.

So, AFRICOM comes in theoretically speaking, discovers what everybody and his brother already know - that basic needs are not being met - and rape, pillage and plunder are the norm, and while being trained, the indigenous
personnel are fed and paid like normal people expect.

Exfil... See you later. What a strange concept with very good intentions !

I remain optimistic

Stan, it's the 'C' word. Continuity.

It all fell apart in the old Brit colonies with the indigenous regiments when the (expat) officers packed up and went home (to mother Britain). It worked for the RAR (Rhodesian African Rifles) as for their officers Rhodesia was their home.

How long would it take to take 700 odd people and knock a battalion into shape (with some degree of sustainability)? Minimum ten years.

Oh yes, and you want to send out maximum number of African Americans - to take the racial edge off it all. Might not be PC, but that's the way to do it.

The last thing you want to be doing is training up future well trained genocidal militias which will happen if you are not careful.

[Stan]

Stan, it's the 'C' word. Continuity.

Oh yes, and you want to send out maximum number of African Americans - to take the racial edge off it all. Might not be PC, but that's the way to do it.

Strange that, the African Americans in Zaire felt that it was harder for them to get along. We don't actually employ any Americans and our support and training is governed by Geneva (UN) and what we call IMAS - International Mine Action Standards. AFRICOM should be looking at our program so we can expand (hope we don't have to wear those funky patches with our baby blue helmets )

The last thing you want to be doing is training up future well trained genocidal militias which will happen if you are not careful.

That's a tough one. The vetting process is straight forward but is dependent on the current host country government to provide information to initiate vetting.

[JMA]

Strange that, the African Americans in Zaire felt that it was harder for them to get along. We don't actually employ any Americans and our support and training is governed by Geneva (UN) and what we call IMAS - International Mine Action Standards. AFRICOM should be looking at our program so we can expand (hope we don't have to wear those funky patches with our baby blue helmets )

Stan, are we not perhaps at cross purposes? I believe you are talking about demining teams? I was talking about training battalions as per the Stars and Stripes articles.

My thoughts were of staffing over a 10 year period involving permanent postings preceded by extensive language training etc etc. The issue of staffing would relate to officers on the Gurkha model or the RAR model, perhaps starting on a earlier colonial model (which included key NCO posts as well) and depending on the local ethnic/tribal military history (I'll come select them ). Perhaps for a different discussion sometime?

[KingJaja]

Stan, are we not perhaps at cross purposes? I believe you are talking about demining teams? I was talking about training battalions as per the Stars and Stripes articles.

My thoughts were of staffing over a 10 year period involving permanent postings preceded by extensive language training etc etc. The issue of staffing would relate to officers on the Gurkha model or the RAR model, perhaps starting on a earlier colonial model (which included key NCO posts as well) and depending on the local ethnic/tribal military history (I'll come select them ). Perhaps for a different discussion sometime?

Does your concept have political support both in the US and Africa?

I haven't read the Stars and Stripe article, but if you are pushing for a model like Glover's Hausas or the Nubian dominated King's African Rifles, I have three words for you: don't try it.

We've been there, done that. Works very well for a colony, doesn't work well in an independent nation.

[JMA]

Does your concept have political support both in the US and Africa?

I haven't read the Stars and Stripe article, but if you are pushing for a model like Glover's Hausas or the Nubian dominated King's African Rifles, I have three words for you: don't try it.

We've been there, done that. Works very well for a colony, doesn't work well in an independent nation.

OK, well read the Stars and Stripes article for context then comment.

A lot of what is discussed here is merely theoretical or from some based their own limited experience, thats why its called a discussion forum.

Feel free to make a concrete contribution on how best to staff military support missions to Africa (frrom the US or other countries) and how that would differ in approach between say Nigeria and the DRC, Egypt and Somalia. etc etc.