Homosexuality and Military Service (Merged thread)

[kehenry1]

My point, using the extreme and disturbing case of PFC Winchell as an example, is that my short 15 years in the military I have witnessed or heard of more hostility towards the idea of openly gay personnel than acceptance of it. I'm not so naive as to think they are not serving. A guy in my platoon at airborne school went on to become the first openly gay member of the AZ state legislature a few years later.

To mirror a comment above, it's been my experience that people in an organization mirror the leadership. If, up and down the chain, there is no tolerance for ill discipline or harassment, the troops are unlikely to do so. But, it has to be up and down the chain. It can't skip. The officers nor NCOs can make any public pronouncements "on the clock" or in private to members of the unit that state otherwise.

Frankly, it's been the same issue with integrating women in certain units. Even the hint that the LT or the SFC is unhappy and unaccepting usually leads to one or two in the unit making remarks or acting on that.

Although, I expect, in the case of women in the units, that will be less likely as the deployments with women continue and they are seen in more active roles than just "fobbits". Raven 42, combat medics, a captain I know is leading patrols in Afghanistan, the Civ Affairs that are actively "outside the wire", etc, etc, etc there are thousands that are operating in the "new terrain".

Which reminds me, do we have a thread about using women in Small Wars to effect the best culturally sound COIN?

[marct]

Hi Kat,

Which reminds me, do we have a thread about using women in Small Wars to effect the best culturally sound COIN?

The topic is spread around pretty much, although there is this thread. Why don't you start one?

Marc

[120mm]

Frankly, I was more fascinated by the use of Colonel (ret) Kerr's question, providing that he was a political "plant".

I'm sorry, I can't refer a CSMR "Brigadier" as anything but a b.s. "pretender" He's a retired Colonel, period.

[Entropy]

President-elect Obama's press secretary at a news conference today:

Thaddeus: Is the new administration going to get rid of the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy?

Gibbs: Thaddeus, you don’t hear a politician give a one-word answer much, but it’s yes.

Jump ahead to about 4:15 in the video to hear it.

[Xenophon]

I've seen a lot of the, "the military isn't ready for openly gay servicemembers" argument against those opposed to allowing it. And they have a point. Combat arms types of all ranks in the Marine Corps are vehemently against it, and I'm sure the feeling still exists in other parts of the military. When DADT is eventually ended, there will be violence and hazing at first, and probably for a while. That's very sad, but unfortunately true. I have trouble convincing some Marines that the President-elect is not a Muslim. Open-mindedness towards homosexuals is a little far into the future.

That being said, "readiness" is a non-issue. The military wasn't ready for integration of females nor was it ready for racial desegregation. The pressure to change needs to come from outside events/politicians. The President that decides he wants to take the burden of making that change should take a stand and do so, despite the military's protestations.

[William F. Owen]

Well you shouldn't be surprised,
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Culture/10618.htm

...but I guess most will be.

[Boondoggle]

This thread probably needs to wake up with Secretary Gates looking to make the application of DADT more "humane", the current admin's promise to end it during their first term, and the growing public support to end it.

And this story has the makings of, depending how it plays out, of adding to the discussion.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...&zIndex=125686