Netfires - Tube Artillery - MLRS

[BayonetBrant]

don't forget that 120mm mortars live at the BN level, which makes one of their key attributes "responsiveness". It can take a while to get 155mm rounds - or anything else - fired as an immediate suppression mission. But the S3 can grab the mike and get mortar rounds in flight inside of 2 minutes.

[Stan]

Touché !
The 120 teams are quick and get to 6 clicks... The 155 to 24 clicks, albeit slower

You can Run but you'll only die tired !

don't forget that 120mm mortars live at the BN level, which makes one of their key attributes "responsiveness". It can take a while to get 155mm rounds - or anything else - fired as an immediate suppression mission. But the S3 can grab the mike and get mortar rounds in flight inside of 2 minutes.

[Jason Port]

So, as a former 120 section sergeant in the cav, I posit that there is a home for each of these options. The 155 has an ability to drop some heavy heat from a fixed position, therefore giving it the ability to mass rounds and then pump them down range, especially in a FOB against an enemy without counterbattery.

Conversely, the heavier rocket artilllery at the above Brigade level provides heavy rounds against specific targets outside the range of the 120 or 155. Cost makes them a high-profile system, and really limits their usage to critical targets, and only used by folks with birds and stars, thus keeping it out of reach of the platoon, company, and battalion.

The 120, to Brant's point in the Infantry and the Cav are key tools to the lower echelons. In the Cav they are hip pocket close to the troop commander, and enable troops quick suppressive fires to assist the scouts keep from exposing their direct fire assets. Unfortunately, most RSTA/Cav troops have only two guns making it tougher to maneuver them. It is impossible to split the section and have security on the move, but it also means that during a route reconnaisance, the 1064 mortar carrier has to constantly be running like hell, emplacing and then running again, while the scouts and tanks outpace them. Further, it is harder to mass fires or do coordinated illumination missions with the two gun section as the resulting rounds pushed out are lower in count. Further, without a separate command vehicle in the heavy mortar section, coordination of vehicles, fires planning and fire direction computation is really an exercise in mental and physical gymnastics as the squad leader jumps into the drivers seat with the MBC and the section sergeant tries not to get in the way.

Conversely, the larger mortar platoon with 4 guns and 2 command tracks and a supply truck (this info might be dated) enables splitting into three gun sections, which enables one to maneuver, while the other is still emplaced, making a movement to contact with immediate suppression a reality. These guys can run a broad spectrum of missions, which you will never receive through a request to division for artillery, when working at the company level. Further, the ability to have an FPF for the battalion front brings the shooters a warm and fuzzy feeling when bad things otherwise abound.

Therefore, I submit that the home for the 155 can remain, the MLRS systems will always be in vogue because they are sexy to watch, but when you really want to lay some waste up close and personal, there is no better way than through the 120 mortar, with some kick ass fire direction control. My only recommendation to the current Table of Organization and Equipment would be to equip the two gun cav troop with a command vehicle (M113A3 or M577) in the mortar section to enable better fires planning, and better integration into the troop C2 cell under the XO. (if you want to know why the XO's 577 is a bad place, I will tell you later.) Assign the crew as the E-7, an E-5 FDC guy and an E-3 driver.

The last thing I might mention is the Future Combat Systems, Rocket in a Box which provides a modular, easily deployable rocket which fires on demand, from a box. I don't know enough about it, but everything I have read seems to make this another sexy product which replaces already fine pieces of equipment. However, I might have said the same things about UAVs, but they pretty much do some great work.

[reed11b]

don't forget that 120mm mortars live at the BN level, which makes one of their key attributes "responsiveness". It can take a while to get 155mm rounds - or anything else - fired as an immediate suppression mission. But the S3 can grab the mike and get mortar rounds in flight inside of 2 minutes.

Which is why I feel that PGMM's for the 120 (even 81 and 60's for that matter) would have great real world utility, and cost less then excaliber rounds. The negative is that 120's have limited self sustainmant ability compared to an arty battery.
Reed

[Ken White]

...The negative is that 120's have limited self sustainmant ability compared to an arty battery.

Do you mean in logistic support?

[reed11b]

Do you mean in logistic support?

Did I not just get done telling you to read what mean and not what I write?
Yes I mean logistic support, especially ammo resupply. Of course I was an 81mm mortar man and the 120 is vehicle based so they may have a more robust logistical support.

[Stan]

Reed,

A little sarcasm is OK, but a more thorough response from the beginning would have precluded what you have concluded to be obvious.

Not all of us were Eleven Charlies.

Thanks in advance for your consideration while posting herein.

Regards, Stan

Did I not just get done telling you to read what mean and not what I write?
Yes I mean logistic support, especially ammo resupply. Of course I was an 81mm mortar man and the 120 is vehicle based so they may have a more robust logistical support.

[reed11b]

Reed,

A little sarcasm is OK, but a more thorough response from the beginning would have precluded what you have concluded to be obvious questions.

Not all of us were Eleven Charlies.

Thanks in advance for your consideration while posting herein.

Regards, Stan

No precluding on my part Stan, I was dinging myself on that post. The sarcasm was in referance to joke I made to Ken a few minutes ago on another post. I agree that my military terminology needs some refresher work.
Reed

[Ken White]

Did I not just get done telling you to read what mean and not what I write?
Yes I mean logistic support, especially ammo resupply. Of course I was an 81mm mortar man and the 120 is vehicle based so they may have a more robust logistical support.

and they are in the 120 Platoon itself and in the HHC Support Platoon. Poor Rifle Companies don't have that luxury -- though they did when we had the Mule (this one LINK and not this one LINK). Those put the M-Gator to shame.

[BayonetBrant]

[Stan]

Let's bring out the real guns

[Distiller]

don't forget that 120mm mortars live at the BN level, which makes one of their key attributes "responsiveness". It can take a while to get 155mm rounds - or anything else - fired as an immediate suppression mission. But the S3 can grab the mike and get mortar rounds in flight inside of 2 minutes.

Yes, but one of the Netfires ideas is to have a couple distributed in the ops area and give the ground troops direct access, e.g. via relay-UAVs. Should be as fast as a Dragon Fire II mortar (or comparable system), but with longer range. Btw, Dragon Fire II without ammo is said to have the same weight as a Netfires CLU.

@ towed mortars for cavalry: Funny idea. Luckily these days there are vehicle mounted alternatives like AMOS and NEMO (not to forget Nona and Vena), and the mentioned future Dragon Fire II.

[Kiwigrunt]

Mine's the most sophistimacated.....