Special Forces Use of Pack Animals

[Uboat509]

I just finished a basic horse and mule packing course. I have seen 250 lbs used a number of times on this board and I know that it was in the old manual but we were taught no more than 10 -15% of the animals body weight, which meant about 150lbs as an upper limit. I wasn't really all that impressed with the animals. They tended to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

SFC W

[Rank amateur]

They tend to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

SFC W

So are some council members, but you learn to love them.

[Ken White]

and the Mules...

[Rifleman]

I wasn't really all that impressed with the animals. They tended to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

They can be at that. Yet, was it likely any different for a Mongol packing a Bactrian camel?

Of course, many NCOs think that troops tend to be willful, stubborn, and high maintenance too.

It is what it is.

[John T. Fishel]

Uboat, RFD TV has a number of programs devoted to equine training. One of them even deals with mules and donkeys. Horses, donkeys, and mules are smart animals with lots of quirks but they all respond to repetition, intelligently applied pressure, and release. One of my favorite trainers, Aussie born Clinton Anderson has a training motto, "As gentle as possible, as firm as necessary TO GET THE JOB DONE."

Pretty good for all stubborn, high maintenance old mules...

Cheers

JohnT

[Uboat509]

The problem is that, as far as I can see, the areas where these animals might be preferable to more modern modes of transport is very narrow. Excluding their use as a means of blending into the local population, which is a different issue, there really aren't many places where I could not do the same job better with modern equipment. I am aware that these animals can be trained and used effectively but I can't help but feel that it is not worth the effort when there are better means available.

SFC W

[John T. Fishel]

Whose war is it anyway? If it is their war, then some of the "modern" stuff may not be either available or appropriate. If I may refer to the El Salvador experience here, one of the problems faced by the ESAF was an effective means of pursuit of fleeing FMLN bands. Helicopters would have been the best solution but ESAF didn't have enough and the USA wasn't going to supply them with sufficient numbers. I proposed to my boss a concept of mounted infantry (as distinct from cavalry) using lots of cheap ($150 each) horses with the point rider wearing blast chaps and blast booties as a defense against mines. If a horse took a mine he would be destroyed on the spot and the point rider would mount a new horse and keep going. The pursuit column wouldn't be slowed at all. Couldn't sell it because my boss only saw helos as the solution (oh, and he was a personal friend).

Cheers

JohnT

[Ken White]

and Teams applied (LINK) the skills may come in handy.

Now if we can just cease with the CIF stuff and get other less extensively trained Fords dedicated to that so the SF trained Cadillacs can do what they should do...

[William F. Owen]

I am aware that these animals can be trained and used effectively but I can't help but feel that it is not worth the effort when there are better means available.

And that is confirmed by the IDF's use of Llamas - in preference to Donkeys of Mules. Long Range dismounted infiltration into enemy territory, along pre-cleared routes, with extensive UAV support.

[Rifleman]

I have a co-worker who packs llamas for summer trips in the Rockies. He says they are something to carry your backpack. They can sustain about what an average well conditioned hiker can. Since many tourists are not well conditioned, the llamas are needed.

I can see how this could be very helpful for a soldier when the circumstances are right to employ it, since the soldier wouldn't arrive at his objective as fatigued. I don't doubt llamas have their place but they're not exactly like the Roman practice of one mule per tent group either.

[Firn]

I can see how this could be very helpful for a soldier when the circumstances are right to employ it, since the soldier wouldn't arrive at his objective as fatigued. I don't doubt llamas have their place but they're not exactly like the Roman practice of one mule per tent group either.

If a Lama can only carry a man's load than the advantages experienced by the IDF for the specific tasks must be rather large. The question here is how much can an average well conditioned hiker carry according to your co-worker?

[slapout9]

I just finished a basic horse and mule packing course. I have seen 250 lbs used a number of times on this board and I know that it was in the old manual but we were taught no more than 10 -15% of the animals body weight, which meant about 150lbs as an upper limit. I wasn't really all that impressed with the animals. They tended to be willful stubborn and high maintenance.

SFC W

You need a Mule Skinner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j70GS...eature=related

[Majormarginal]

I think that is the title of a book about Rangers rescuing Allied POWs in the Phillippines. Their original MOS was Mule Skinner.