Where are our [NATO] allies in Afghanistan?

[Firn]

Originally Posted by carl

Firn: I don't agree that Afghan cooperation wasn't forthcoming. We never used the power we had to demand things from the gov. We paid all the bills. All of them. If we want something, like less stealing, we should be able to throw our weight around and get it. We never really did. Instead we just hoped that our man Karzai would do the right thing. But we never forced him to.

We got bluffed by Karzai as badly as we got bluffed by the Pak Army/ISI. In both cases we proclaimed our confidence in them and in both cases we just refused to admit we made a mistake. It is like the hallmark of our big gov/military culture is an absolute belief that we can predict the correct course of action right off the bat. All that ensues is predicated on preserving that belief so we won't change and pretend that things are just swell.

I just wanted to point out that it is far easier to achieve a limited political goal depending mostly on your own ressources then doing so with a far more bigger political goal where you depend to a large degree on the 'hearts and minds' of others...

Overall I agree with you.

[Presley Cannady]

Originally Posted by gute

...maybe when it's all over the "Afghan" will become a endangered species.

Like the last time around?

[tequila]

Originally Posted by gute

As far as I'm concerned this is all a moot point after this latest 'koran burning' b.s. What a bunch of f-ing savages! Let's get the hell out of there and let em sort it out - maybe when it's all over the "Afghan" will become a endangered species.

Okay, I feel better. Anyways, as much as I appreciate what or allies have done, etc - I've never quite understood why a country like the U.S. with 300+ million could not handle Afghanistan by ourselves. I get the whole NATO thing, but we should have done this by ourselves. Again, I do very much appreciate what our allies have done, are doing and their sacrifices.

IMO, we (the U.S.) do not nation build well, at least not in non-western countries/cultures because we are not willing to do what is necessary to bring stability and make the people conform.

If the goal of this war was ever to "make the people conform", it was lost before the first bomb dropped. Three hundred million people or no, you're not going to make any society in the modern world "conform" to what a bunch of foreigners want.

The Soviets and their Khalqi semi-allies tried to do so and killed millions. Was that a worthy goal? Did Afghan society become more or less radicalized as a result?

[davidbfpo]

Listening to a BBC Radio yesterday a former Kabul correspondent referred to the exit of the Norwegian contingent from a northern province - Faryab (RC-North), after nine years and the apparent increase in local Taliban activity.

I had not seen any reporting here that Norway had left.

A quick search found they left in October 2012, with nine deaths:http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/09/...istan-pullout/

A small presence remains (97 persons), probably a PRT and those in Kabul:http://www.isaf.nato.int/troop-numbe...rway/index.php

Given the closeness of the Nordic nations on many foreign policy matters I note both Denmark and Sweden have remained, with battalion-sized contingents - in RC-N and RC-SW respectively.