Why do liberal professors hate the military?

[yamiyugikun]

Hi everyone,

Thank you very much for all of your thoughtful and varied responses. I admire the depth of thought, and expressions that everyone has shared. I had no idea the conflict of the "contemplative" versus "active" lifestyle went so far back to ancient Greece. I find it ironic that the word "academy" came out of a site named after a warrior in anciet Greece, that in fact at one point the contemplative and active lifestyles were one.

I will admit, I sterotyped when saying academia is "liberal" and the military "conservative." That is black and white thinking on my part. Things always seem to be shades of gray. I like posting here cause what you folks say is honest, thought provoking and contemplative.

After reading everyone's posts, my thoughts on why some academics disdain the military is because the fear it. I am actually visiting an assist professor in the military science department tommorow to find out about the Army Librarianship Program. I was feeling nervous today at work, since this is a person in uniform, even though he is a professor. Then it occured to me, he is a human being like me, but by visiting him, I'm trying to overcome my own biases as an academic.

How to get acadmics to have a balance between the "active" and "contemplative" lifestyles? That is something I'm still trying to figure out. I admire a lot of values in the military such as duty, honor, sacrifice, living for something greater than yourself. It's also true that militaries are involved in killing and destruction. Thus, its easy for academics (or people in general) to project their own insecurities onto the armed forces.

But I think it also stems from a part of human nature. No matter how much we try to "civilize" ourselves, there is always that primitive part of us, that fight or flight response. Anyhow, thank you everyone for your opinions in this discussion, and feel free to continue this post

Naomi

[BayonetBrant]

I will admit, I sterotyped when saying academia is "liberal" and the military "conservative." That is black and white thinking on my part. Things always seem to be shades of gray. I like posting here cause what you folks say is honest, thought provoking and contemplative.

During the 7.5 years I was in both Grad School and the National Guard, I noticed a trend:

Around campus, I was considered a goose-stepping fascist right-wing tool of the machine.
Around the armory, I was a commie pinko tree-hugging f*g who refused to be a team player.

Somehow I took comfort in knowing I was pretty squarely located in the middle....

[marct]

Hi Naomi,

I will admit, I sterotyped when saying academia is "liberal" and the military "conservative." That is black and white thinking on my part. Things always seem to be shades of gray.

Well, that's a first step. Next thing, we'll introduce you to colour !!!!

How to get acadmics to have a balance between the "active" and "contemplative" lifestyles? That is something I'm still trying to figure out.

We see the same strain inside the academy as well, especially in the status games between "Pure" (or "Theoretical") and "Applied" research. Personally, I'm actually a theoretician but, in order to have some connection with reality (however limited that may be), I do a lot of "applied" work. For me, the trick was realizing that the "contemplative" mode of theory was, essentially, a sterile bore unless I had some chance of testing it out somehow or other.

But I think it also stems from a part of human nature. No matter how much we try to "civilize" ourselves, there is always that primitive part of us, that fight or flight response.

"Civilization" is, frequently, over-rated and used as a term to avoid getting your hands dirty by doing any real work . Case in point: one of my academic specialties lies in the area of "narratives" (actually, myth, folklore, etc.). I am using that rather "abstract" area of knowledge in a number of applied ways including to help publishers restructure their editorial policies and, also, to restructure ways of thinking and talking about Information Operations and Terrorism.

The "primitive" response of fight or flight (part of our limbic system actually), is actually quite instructive. One of the things that many academics forget is that we are animals in the sense of being biological creatures, and we have to take that in to account when we do our academic work, otherwise we are just engaging in mental masturbation.

[selil]

We see the same strain inside the academy as well, especially in the status games between "Pure" (or "Theoretical") and "Applied" research. Personally, I'm actually a theoretician but, in order to have some connection with reality (however limited that may be), I do a lot of "applied" work. For me, the trick was realizing that the "contemplative" mode of theory was, essentially, a sterile bore unless I had some chance of testing it out somehow or other.

And, as a technologist I am very much "applied" to the horror of my fellow faculty in liberal arts and the "hard" sciences. However, I have to ground application heavily in theory or be bored out of my skull doing the same thing over and over and over.... again. Theory is part of the scientific process and since a big part of what I do is "glue" the different sciences together I am also very interdisciplinary.

Theory is easy. Any fool can spout theories without consideration. Application of theory requires perseverance, dedication, and some times a good dose of inspiration.

[William F. Owen]

Theory is easy. Any fool can spout theories without consideration. Application of theory requires perseverance, dedication, and some times a good dose of inspiration.

Well said Sir. Bravo! Unfortunately spouting un-proven theories can make you money and reputation... thus some of the current mess

[marct]

Well said Sir. Bravo! Unfortunately spouting un-proven theories can make you money and reputation... thus some of the current mess

It can get you tenure, too, Wilf .

[William F. Owen]

It can get you tenure, too, Wilf .

Tell me where? I can change. I can speak post-modern gobbledegook jargon.

"War is becoming a non-hierarchical, non-linear, complexity defined, form of adaptation driven, non-state enterprise that will redefine emerging geo-political trends in an increasingly globalised, and complex world, where actors will be constantly forming and re-forming networks of networks, covering all areas information and social domains."

Good enough?

[MikeF]

"War is becoming a non-hierarchical, non-linear, complexity defined, form of adaptation driven, non-state enterprise that will redefine emerging geo-political trends in an increasingly globalised, and complex world, where actors will be constantly forming and re-forming networks of networks, covering all areas information and social domains."

Or systems within systems interacting, interrelated, or interdependent components that form a complex and unified whole clashing in conflict as civlizations merge???

Can I get tenure too?

v/r

Mike

[Van]

Originally Posted by yamiyugikun
But I think it also stems from a part of human nature. No matter how much we try to "civilize" ourselves, there is always that primitive part of us, that fight or flight response.

"Civilization" is, frequently, over-rated and used as a term to avoid getting your hands dirty by doing any real work . .

Naomi,
Did we warn you that we have a number of anthropologists in residence here?

Originally Posted by yamiyugikun
... visiting an assist professor in the military science department tommorow ... I was feeling nervous today at work, since this is a person in uniform,

That's interesting. You're nervous about visiting a person who has taken, and practices an oath to uphold and defend the constitution, and whose core institutional value is to defend you (and the rest of the U.S.)? Would you be nervous visiting a firefighter? (And yes, I believe the service of firefighters is comparable to military service.)

Let us know how it goes. I'd be very interested in any shifts in your perceptions of the military.