About This Forum: Social Sciences, Moral and Religious

[Martin]

You are quite right about the assumption of unity within a belief system and the concomitant social-structural assumptions that are, supposedly, contained in it. That's also one of the big problems Islam has had in many of the immigrant communities - an inability to separate the "cultural" from the "religious". I'm pretty sure I know why that has happened (a rather strange process of symbolic accretion tied in with fairly standard patterns of immigrant enculturation and a consequent mis-mapping of perceptual topologies), but very few symbol systems contain quick ways to adapt.

I pretty much agree. (so far and if I understand you correctly )

Hey Marc, reading further in Tribesmen - you were right, it is quite alright. I was way too quick in closing it, it is interesting.

Martin - Wheel reinventor

[marct]

Hey Martin,

Good to hear from you again.

I pretty much agree. (so far and if I understand you correctly )

Hey Marc, reading further in Tribesmen - you were right, it is quite alright. I was way too quick in closing it, it is interesting.

Sahlins is pretty cool; I've always liked his stuff. If you want a more detailed one, that may be useful in some future COIN ops (i.e. Sudan / Darfur) try E.E. Evans-Prtichard's The NUer. Good book, on the whole, although I always prefered his Witchcraft, Oracles and Magic among the Azande.

Marc

[Martin]

Hey Martin,

Good to hear from you again.

Sahlins is pretty cool; I've always liked his stuff. If you want a more detailed one, that may be useful in some future COIN ops (i.e. Sudan / Darfur) try E.E. Evans-Prtichard's The NUer. Good book, on the whole, although I always prefered his Witchcraft, Oracles and Magic among the Azande.

Marc

Marc, good to hear you too.

Before overseas armed social studies, I better actually accomplish something.
I might have a look at it if there is time inbetween studies, but I am in a pretty intense course and I still have some programming work to do (plus PT, etc).

Have you read Atkinson's Social Order and the General Theory of Strategy? Interesting subject and fits in with my current attempts at understanding the bonds between governance, politics, economics, military and the moral/social order, but the only praise I have heard of the book is its listing in Boyd's reference list. Would be interested to hear your opinion. On that account the Federalist Papers is very interesting beyond understanding history and the constitution.

[marct]

Hi Martin,

Have you read Atkinson's Social Order and the General Theory of Strategy? Interesting subject and fits in with my current attempts at understanding the bonds between governance, politics, economics, military and the moral/social order, but the only praise I have heard of the book is its listing in Boyd's reference list. Would be interested to hear your opinion. On that account the Federalist Papers is very interesting beyond understanding history and the constitution.

I haven't read it (Oh God! Another book on the "to read" pile!!!!). I read the Federalist papers quite some time ago. Maybe I'll go back and reread them after the "to read" pile drops a bit lower .

Marc

[Martin]

I haven't read it (Oh God! Another book on the "to read" pile!!!!). I read the Federalist papers quite some time ago. Maybe I'll go back and reread them after the "to read" pile drops a bit lower .

Marc

Those old books are quite interesting in their ways, finished Common Sense a few weeks ago. I still prefer the stories from people with experience on the ground though, Contra Cross is up next along with Unfettered Mind.

How does your theory of symbolic warfare differ from PSYOPs and related? Is it a subset expansion?

M

[marct]

Hi Martin,

How does your theory of symbolic warfare differ from PSYOPs and related? Is it a subset expansion?

It's still in the "visual stage" - I'm a visual thinker which means I think in pictures rather than words. It's still not clear as a picture, yet, although some of the elements are fairly clear.

I'd have to say that it is pretty far away from PSYOPs in general; it's closer to Dave Kilcullen's Framework and the larger model in his Countering Global Insurgency, but with a chunk of Korzybski's General Semantics and some stuff on perceptual topologies. I'm hoping to have a rough paper together on it in the next couple of months.

Marc

[Martin]

Hi Marc,

Hi Martin,

It's still in the "visual stage" - I'm a visual thinker which means I think in pictures rather than words. It's still not clear as a picture, yet, although some of the elements are fairly clear.

I'd have to say that it is pretty far away from PSYOPs in general; it's closer to Dave Kilcullen's Framework and the larger model in his Countering Global Insurgency, but with a chunk of Korzybski's General Semantics and some stuff on perceptual topologies. I'm hoping to have a rough paper together on it in the next couple of months.

Marc

It will be interesting to read what you come up with. I have a feeling you are so well read that when you mention a few sources, you are actually stretching across many other fields and possibilities.

However, I have a hard time understanding how methodologies under the header Symbolic Warfare, operating primarily on the mind in individual and varying group contexts, can be so far away from psychological operations, or even if it is, may not still expand the category. That it can be operated in the environment defined by Kilcullen does not change its methodological category... or maybe I'm completely lost?
I'm just really curious, don't take it as discouragement. If you want to elaborate, please do. Otherwise I'll try to shut up for a while.

I like Kilcullen.

M