Page 1 of 48 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 945

Thread: Human Terrain & Anthropology (merged thread)

  1. #1
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Largo, Florida
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Navigating the 'Human Terrain'

    Moderator's Note

    This thread contains a number of previously stand-alone threads and seven small ones were merged in today. I have left RFI threads on terrain alone. The thread has been re-opened to enable a new post and capturing the announcement recently that the programme was being ended (Ends).


    7 Dec. Los Angeles Times op-ed by Max Boot - Navigating the 'Human Terrain'.

    The U.S. Armed Forces have a problem. They have the technical capability to hit any target on the planet. But which targets should they hit? Unfortunately, our enemies in the war on terrorism don't operate tanks or warships that we could blow up. They lurk in the shadows and emerge only briefly to set off bombs. Rooting them out requires getting inside their minds. But there's no machine that can pull off such a feat, at least not yet.

    We need smart people, not smart bombs — Americans who are familiar with foreign languages and cultures and proficient in such disciplines as intelligence collection and interrogation. Yet these are precisely the areas in which the U.S. government is the weakest.

    The Iraq war has brutally exposed the cost of these shortcomings and led to a belated recognition by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that his "transformation" agenda needs to incorporate the skills needed for peacekeeping, nation building and related tasks — what the Pentagon calls stability operations...
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-14-2015 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Addd Mods Note

  2. #2
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    DC Area
    Posts
    23

    Default

    I was just looking at that...
    A couple of years ago we began to notice a trend...
    We began to see certain SOF becoming more like OGA and other SOF becoming more like what we had traditionally seen certain SOF doing. The Marine Corps was traditioning to become more White SOF-like and finally the Army becoming more Marine-like.
    This article and the actions that spawned it are exactly in line with those observations.
    Last edited by GS; 12-12-2005 at 02:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Council Member Robal2pl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Hi !
    1) GS : could you explain what mean "Black SF" and "White SF"? I guess that "Black" are Delta/DevGru etc, and "White" are Green Berets/Rangers ?
    2) i agree, this article only cnfirms ts what some people knew and told years ago : USA don't have rela HUMINT capabilities. A lot of money was spent on COMINT/ELINT etc systems that were useful in Cold War. In GWOT they're almost useless

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4

    Default Army Human Terrain Teams: Were they deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan?

    I was reading an old article from Sept-Oct 2006 Military Review titled "The Human Terrain System: A CORDS for the 21st Century", and saw that five HTTS were to be deployed from Fort Leavenworth to Afghanistan and Iraq beginning in the fall of 2006. Does anyone know if they were and if so how successful they were?

  5. #5
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    I'm not sure, but I thought the HTTs were only being deployed last month. It may be to early for anything to be coming out.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  6. #6
    Council Member wierdbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    49

    Default HTT article

    do you have a link to the article on the Human Terrain Teams that was referenced above?

    -thanks
    Wierdbeard

  7. #7
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    The Human Terrain System. Dr. Jacob Kipp, Lester Grau; Karl Prinslow; and Captain Don Smith
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  8. #8
    Council Member wierdbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    49

    Smile HTT vs. THT

    i just finished reading the article, interesting read. Although besides the difference in officers vs enlisted what are the differences between these Human Terrain Teams and Tactical Humint Teams? It seems the key products that the HTT provide to units seems like the same type of information that THT's regularly develope on the AO's they work in. From my experience THT's that made sure they cultivated a good working relationship with the action elements in their AO. As well as having had good relations with the other MI/S2/OGA operating in an AO.

  9. #9
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    Hi Weirdbeard,

    Quote Originally Posted by wierdbeard View Post
    i just finished reading the article, interesting read. Although besides the difference in officers vs enlisted what are the differences between these Human Terrain Teams and Tactical Humint Teams? It seems the key products that the HTT provide to units seems like the same type of information that THT's regularly develope on the AO's they work in. From my experience THT's that made sure they cultivated a good working relationship with the action elements in their AO. As well as having had good relations with the other MI/S2/OGA operating in an AO.
    We had a fairly long discussion on them when the article came out (here). As to the differences, after cooling down , I think the main difference is in spin and purpose. The basic idea behind the HTTs is that you would have an Anthropologist or Sociologist doing active research that would have both an immediate and a long term benefit in terms of better "understanding".

    Now, I'll admit to being biased and thinking that getting Anthropologists (and occasional Sociologists) into the field is a good idea. I think we have a lot to offer in the current war effort, despite what some of my <shudder> colleagues may say .

    To actually answer your question, I think the real differences between HTTs and THTs is in the temporal dimension - we (aka Anthropologists) think in a very different time horizon from Intel people - ours tends to be in millenia even if it has immediate applications.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  10. #10
    Council Member wierdbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    49

    Default

    thanks Marc, I appreciate the feedback and the link to the other thread, on a personal note if could have a Anthropologist or Sociologist handy in theater i would glady take them, as it always seems to me that there's never enough information out there when i'm getting my guys up to speed, but that's probably just me as I tend to be an information junkie.

    I always seem to acquire at least a footlocker or three of books on a given area while i'm in theater, humpin all that around gets to be umm problematic to say the least.

    Wierdbeard

  11. #11
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    Hi Weirdbeard,

    Quote Originally Posted by wierdbeard View Post
    thanks Marc, I appreciate the feedback and the link to the other thread, on a personal note if could have a Anthropologist or Sociologist handy in theater i would glady take them, as it always seems to me that there's never enough information out there when i'm getting my guys up to speed, but that's probably just me as I tend to be an information junkie.
    Well, you know how to contact me if I can ever help out .

    Quote Originally Posted by wierdbeard View Post
    I always seem to acquire at least a footlocker or three of books on a given area while i'm in theater, humpin all that around gets to be umm problematic to say the least.
    Damn! That's what cheap laptops and DVDs are for! Man, I've got 1/2 my library in pdf format, which beats the other half (way too many books and articles!).

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    4

    Default Blog by Iraq-bound Anthropologist

    The Danger Room over at Wired Magazine tips readers off to a new blog by one Marcus B. Griffin, Ph.D. He's headed to Iraq to develop the Army's Human Terrain System. Some interesting reading, including this post:
    Going Native

    Going “native” in anthropology is a fairly common strategy to gain a better understanding of the people with whom one is working. I am about a month away from deploying to Baghdad as part of the US Army’s new Human Terrain System and have almost gone completely native.

    ...

    By going native, I am better able to see social life from the viewpoint of the people I am working with. I did this as a child among the Agta of northeastern Luzon, the Philippines by wearing a loincloth. As I got older I wore beads and arm bracelets. Today among soldiers, I am looking and more often acting just like them. There is an old Native American saying not to judge another person’s actions until you have walked two moons in their moccasins. That is what going native is all about: walking in someone else’s shoes in order to know what their life is like and therefore why they do what they do. This is called acquiring an emic point of view.
    My apologies if this is a repost, but this blog looks promising.

  13. #13
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Welcome and keep posting. Obvoiusly you are --like me--a fan of Nagl's book. Tell us more about yourself at Tell Us About You #2...

    I will leave commenting on whether "going native" means that in the world of Anthropology to Marc T. But in the world of the FAO, "going native" means losing your perspective and your usefulness.

    Best

    Tom

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Tom,

    Thanks for the welcome. I briefly wrote about myself a couple of months ago here. It's a lightweight bio (given my lack of experience in the "real world") compared to the others, so I hardly blame you for missing it!

    I am indeed a fan of LTC Nagl's book, but I regret my choice of username. Rather than a tribute to a great book, it comes off like some kind of rip-off...

    Regarding the use of the expression "going native," I'm also interested to see how it hits Marc T. given its negative connotation in the military.

    Regards
    Cullen

  15. #15
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Cullen

    Sorry I missed the intro, But also thanks for the bolg contact. I am interested in the subject as are many here,

    Best

    Tom

  16. #16
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default Going native

    Hi Cullen and Tom,

    I've been reading Marcus' blog and I'm really impressed by it. One the whole I find it quite good and I'm looking forward to more. Of course the fact that Hugh Gusterson is engaging in little snipes at Marcus' posts is another sign, to me at least, that it is good !

    As far as "going native" is concerned, Marcus is describing it quite accurately. If you want a more formalized description, it would be building a "persona" (sort of like a split personality) that is "native", but retaining the ability to come out of that persona.

    I think it is this final point, being able to come out of that persona, that marks the difference between what Anthropologists and the military mean by "going native". In the MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) literature, this is called "switching", and it's pretty much what good fieldworkers do with the vital exception that we have control over which persona we are using. Think of it as a mental "trick".

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  17. #17
    Council Member Ironhorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    96

    Default Which native?

    I just took a look at some of the recent entries, and this does bear watching.

    But I would have thought the right "native" would be some flavor or Iraqi. Of course which flavor is a debate all of its own. But if his target nativity is just being one of the Joes, that's a different program that the one I thought they were after with the Human Terrain efforts.

    I probably need to read more, type less . At least I'm not the only one

  18. #18
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhorse View Post
    I just took a look at some of the recent entries, and this does bear watching.

    But I would have thought the right "native" would be some flavor or Iraqi. Of course which flavor is a debate all of its own. But if his target nativity is just being one of the Joes, that's a different program that the one I thought they were after with the Human Terrain efforts.

    I probably need to read more, type less . At least I'm not the only one
    LOLOL

    Right now, the "natives" he is working with are US forces - a group that I think we can all agree are rather different from academics . We'll just have to see what he does over in Iraq. From what I have read of the HTS, I find it unlikely that he will have the opportunity to do proper fieldwork with anyone there except, possibly, the IA or IP.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  19. #19
    Council Member Beelzebubalicious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    currently in Washington DC
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Hello. I've recently found this forum and it addresses a lot of my interests so I'm jumping in. I'll post a bio.

    Anyway, how the HTS is operationalized interests me so I'll be following this blog. Marcus seems to have a good attitude and seems quite practical, so I think he'll do well. In any case, it's a learning curve for everyone. I'm civilian, but have had some limited interaction with the military side in different forms. LIke Marcus I'm impressed, but from my little exposure, it's been hard to bridge the gap (language, experience, etc.). I hope he can.

  20. #20
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Largo, Florida
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Anthropologists in Iraq

    Anthropologists in Iraq - and Those in America Who Attack Them - Herschel Smith at the Captain's Journal blog.

    ... These “concerned anthropologists” understand classical conventional warfare, and the difference between it and counterinsurgency operations. There is no mistaking the facts. Because they consider the original invasion to be unwarranted, they will take no part of a successful counterinsurgency. Rather, they will try to bully other anthropologists into the same position with a childish “petition” (as if other Doctors of Philosophy in anthropology are incapable of making their own minds up about what they consider to be ethical use of their knowledge).

    In our many articles on the subject, we have cataloged the brutalities perpetrated by the terrorists and insurgents in Iraq. The Anbar Province is for all intents and purposes pacified, but seven months ago it was still a restive and savage place with al Qaeda on a campaign of torture in response to the Anbar “awakening.”...

Similar Threads

  1. Terrorism in the USA:threat & response
    By SWJED in forum Law Enforcement
    Replies: 486
    Last Post: 11-27-2016, 02:35 PM
  2. Human Terrain Team study
    By Michael Davies in forum RFIs & Members' Projects
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-02-2011, 01:20 AM
  3. Human Terrain Team Member Killed in Afghanistan
    By SWJED in forum OEF - Afghanistan
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-09-2008, 08:05 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •