Mali mainly, 2012 coup, drugs & more

[JMA]

My point was simply that these groups do not necessarily want the same things. Statements about what the Tuareg want must be viewed with some suspicion since there is a very real possibility that that they do not all want these things. Also the fact that they are so spread out begs the question of whose homeland do they want? In other words, do the Malian Tuareg want the homeland to be in what is now northern Mali? What about the Nigerien Tuareg? Are the Tuareg in others areas going to be willing to relocate to this new homeland?

Read my post again. I did not advocate any "fixes." I was, in fact, advocating against fixes imposed by foreign governments i.e. forcing existing states to cede sovereign land for the creation of a Tuareg homeland.

My comment about the viability of the lands was regarding the terrain, weather and lack of resources. I do not think that I will get a lot of argument that the Sahel is one of the harshest places to live in the world. If they were to create a new state there how would that state feed its people, never mind establish a viable economy? I have no idea what the last part of your statement was about.

I don't want to get into a back and forth with you over this but I need to comment.

You need to accept that comment like "Statements about what the Tuareg want must be viewed with some suspicion" must surely also apply to what you were told and what you believe, yes?

Your 'fix' is not to do anything... so the war will continue. Some fix that is.

Like indigenous people in other extreme climatic areas maybe they just want to continue with their traditional way of life. Maybe they don't want a modern state with malls, Walmart, MacDonald's and Starbucks. No matter how backward we may think their lifestyle is maybe they like it just like that ... and are prepared to fight for it.

[KingJaja]

What do you think?

An interesting nugget from the AP's latest dispatch from Bamako:

A diplomat who requested anonymity because he is not authorized to speak to the press said that [Capt. Amadou Haya] Sanogo, the coup leader, was among the elite tier of soldiers selected by the U.S. Embassy to receive military counterterrorism training in America. Sanogo, the official said, traveled "several times" to America for the special training.

That means that he had to pass a background check indicating that he was not complicit in any human rights crimes. The official requested not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

As blogger Laura Seay quips, "your tax dollars at work."

The U.S. hasn't yet made a decision on whether to cut off military assistance to Mali following the coup. According to State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland, annual U.S. assistance to Mali is around $137 million, about half of which is humanitarian aid. France suspended its military cooperation with Mali yesterday.

See also: Elizabeth Dickinson's post from 2010 on why coups always seem to be led by captains or colonels not generals.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/...ined_in_the_us

About Dickinson - We've never had a successful junior officer coup in Nigeria.

[Stan]

What do you think?
About Dickinson - We've never had a successful junior officer coup in Nigeria.

I think the info leak should be hung for treason. Some of us (our taxes) wasted a ton of money for him/her to pine away abroad and dream up ways to leak info to the press.

On to the meat of the matter...

I've been sending indigenous military to US schools since 1985 and most come back with a desire to do something for their country (a noble cause). Most however do not end up doing anything with their education and the host country government almost always assigns these folks to something pathetically miniscule.

Exposing a foreigner to life in the US is part of the program - sell America. Some don't care at all for life in the US (several Estonians have told me so), but, I don't recall one African NCO or Officer not liking his/her experience there.

I am unaware of any study done to conclude that these soldiers came back from US training and became coup leaders. And, even if there was statistical evidence, what would we then conclude ? That the USA trained future coup leaders vs sending them to the schools originally intended ? Some of us have been watching too many Hollywood movies

About Dickinson - We've never had a successful junior officer coup in Nigeria.

Not sure if there's anecdotal evidence to support Elizabeth's theory. Mobutu was little more than a 6th grade educated sergeant and look what he accomplished

[Uboat509]

You need to accept that comment like "Statements about what the Tuareg want must be viewed with some suspicion" must surely also apply to what you were told and what you believe, yes?

I am not saying that anybody was lied to about what the Tuareg do or do not want. I am simply saying that, because they are such a sparse and widely spread group that none of them can be said to be speaking for all of them. I am sure that some Tuareg absolutely do want a homeland. I also know that some are not so interested and I cannot say that either point of view represents the majority view.

Your 'fix' is not to do anything... so the war will continue. Some fix that is.

My point is that I am not advocating any fix at all by foreign powers. This is not an issue that they can fix. Africa's problems will have to be solved by Africans. Foreign powers can provide some support for them in this but they cannot fix their problems for them.

Like indigenous people in other extreme climatic areas maybe they just want to continue with their traditional way of life. Maybe they don't want a modern state with malls, Walmart, MacDonald's and Starbucks. No matter how backward we may think their lifestyle is maybe they like it just like that ... and are prepared to fight for it.

I never said that they did want those things. Some do and some probably do not. I can say say, however, that none of them want to watch their children starve because the extreme climate that they live in has become more extreme to the point that it is probably not life sustaining anymore.
I did meet Tuareg who wanted to continue their nomadic herding lifestyle but the grazing is so poor now that livestock are dying off faster than they can replace them. That is not sustainable.

[JMA]

I am not saying that anybody was lied to about what the Tuareg do or do not want. I am simply saying that, because they are such a sparse and widely spread group that none of them can be said to be speaking for all of them. I am sure that some Tuareg absolutely do want a homeland. I also know that some are not so interested and I cannot say that either point of view represents the majority view.

My point is that I am not advocating any fix at all by foreign powers. This is not an issue that they can fix. Africa's problems will have to be solved by Africans. Foreign powers can provide some support for them in this but they cannot fix their problems for them.

I never said that they did want those things. Some do and some probably do not. I can say say, however, that none of them want to watch their children starve because the extreme climate that they live in has become more extreme to the point that it is probably not life sustaining anymore.
I did meet Tuareg who wanted to continue their nomadic herding lifestyle but the grazing is so poor now that livestock are dying off faster than they can replace them. That is not sustainable.

Thank you... this makes your position clear.