PTSD in history, other cultures

[Tom Odom]

(1) Is PTSD prevalent in other cultures/countries? Is it a major issue primarily in industrialized countries, or is it present in all cultures engaged in conflict? Russia has a serious problem managing PTSD among combat veterans returning from Chechnya, but this would seem to indicate that PTSD is a consequence of industrialized war.

Answer part one: yes

Answer supposition part two: no

Case Studies: Rwanda -- hardly industrial

Congo -- Ditto

There are plenty of others.

Do cultural mores help define what constitutes trauma? Probably in that what is terribly horrific in one place could be a minor hiccup in another.

[AmericanPride]

Answer part one: yes

Answer supposition part two: no

Case Studies: Rwanda -- hardly industrial

Congo -- Ditto

There are plenty of others.

Do cultural mores help define what constitutes trauma? Probably in that what is terribly horrific in one place could be a minor hiccup in another.

Well, I think that has more to do with the how PTSD is defined. It seems to me that there are only a handful of effects that can occur to people as far as stress and trauma are concerned, but that there are a myriad reasons/triggers for why they happen. Are there historical references to PTSD prior to the 19th century? I think an interesting case study would be the Thirty Years War, the Crusades, or any of the Roman or Mongol campaigns.

[Steve Blair]

You may have trouble finding any information on this, simply because the definition of PTSD is itself pretty recent. I can name any number of PTSD-type cases from the Civil War in the US alone, and I'm also sure you could find a huge number of anecdotal stories from many cultures predating that.

I suspect (though I'm not an anthro type...Marc's better qualified to speak to this possibly) that many tribal cultures had their own cultural mechanisms to deal with what we now call PTSD. Warrior societies, vision/spirit quest rituals, and even something as seemingly unrelated as the berserkers might all have been tools to deal with those who were shocked or disturbed by combat. Some tribal cultures also had social "outs" for those who weren't keen on combat (and in many cases the actual demand for warriors was low enough that it was a self-selecting process).

[AmericanPride]

You may have trouble finding any information on this, simply because the definition of PTSD is itself pretty recent. I can name any number of PTSD-type cases from the Civil War in the US alone, and I'm also sure you could find a huge number of anecdotal stories from many cultures predating that.

I suspect (though I'm not an anthro type...Marc's better qualified to speak to this possibly) that many tribal cultures had their own cultural mechanisms to deal with what we now call PTSD. Warrior societies, vision/spirit quest rituals, and even something as seemingly unrelated as the berserkers might all have been tools to deal with those who were shocked or disturbed by combat. Some tribal cultures also had social "outs" for those who weren't keen on combat (and in many cases the actual demand for warriors was low enough that it was a self-selecting process).

Do you think American society in general lacks any of those "outs", whether for those who are not "keen on combat", or for those who have mental injuries because of combat?

[marct]

Do you think American society in general lacks any of those "outs", whether for those who are not "keen on combat", or for those who have mental injuries because of combat?

I'd second Tom's suggestion of looking at Rwanda and the Congo. There is also some very good material from South Africa.

Part of the problem with all of this is that the definition of PTSD is too fluffy - it's based on a phenotypic definition rather than on a neurological one. From my (rather limited) reading of the literature, PTSD appears to refer to a neurological process that bypasses the neo-cortex and stores memories, or associations, directly in the hipocampus of the brain (or, at least, with a strong connection to that area).

Let me tell you a story (Anthropologists are ALWAYS telling stories ). In a certain tribe living nowadays in South Africa and Tanzania, the manhood ritual involved circumcision - usually with a rather dull iron knife at the age of 12 or so. This was followed with a requirement hat the "candidate" stand immersed in a cold stream for about an hour or so. No, to my mind, having parts of your anatomy slowly sawed off and then being put into cold water for an hour or so will, in all probability, induce a major system shock. Someone who had a genetic predisposition to PTSD, i.e. a likelihood of pain bypassing their neo-cortex, would probably die as a result of this ritual. So, in his culture, PTSD would not be as prevalent as in other cultures that don't select against it.

Marc

[Vic Bout]

having parts of your anatomy slowly sawed off and then being put into cold water for an hour or so will, in all probability, induce a major system shock.

we call that "apply ice to affected area" IOT reduce swelling...and in all probability give it a little primitive novocain lovin'. I'm thinking I'd want the cold stream treatment prior to the, uh, surgical procedure.

As to the whole PTSD aspect of the thing….naw. Folks in the third world, dependant on culture, are pretty much programmed through repeated events and annealed to physical hardship. We’re just “softer” here for a variety of reasons….e.g. very few of us don’t kill/dress our food, air conditioning (cable TV, etc) is viewed as a right, not a privilege, and my $100 Doc Martins protect my feet way better than those ratty old flip flops. IMO physical “toughness” goes a long way in combating PTSD.

[Ken White]

IMO physical “toughness” goes a long way in combating PTSD.

and I'd add that mental toughness and /or being mildly sociopathic helps as much or more...

[Tom Odom]

Well, I think that has more to do with the how PTSD is defined. It seems to me that there are only a handful of effects that can occur to people as far as stress and trauma are concerned, but that there are a myriad reasons/triggers for why they happen. .

That is what I just said with:

Do cultural mores help define what constitutes trauma? Probably in that what is terribly horrific in one place could be a minor hiccup in another.

Again you don't have to look far for a non-industrial scenario. Rwanda and the Congo are current examples where psychological trauma is rampant and long lasting.

Steve is on the mark in suggesting the Civil War. Try Jerry Linderman's Embattled Courage.