Kenya (catch all)

[Bill Moore]

Again a politically driven military operation carried out in haste that fails and not only brings the skill and professionalism of the special forces involved into doubt/question ... but probably more importantly offers AQ a propaganda coup on a golden platter.

I hope no one in the military would call SOF capability into question over one operation that wasn't successful. The nature of high risk ops is that they're high risk and failure is a possibility. Yes a propaganda victory for Al-Qaeda but one for us also.

[JMA]

Bill,

We are not talking about anyone in the military here we are talking about the propaganda value of such an operations failure to the enemy.

Some civies seem to understand that:

Failed Navy SEALs raid on Somali target could bolster Al Shabab

Was this a high risk op? I suggest that the haste in which it was undertaken led to the failure.

Help me understand what you see as being a US propaganda advantage arising from this failure?

I hope no one in the military would call SOF capability into question over one operation that wasn't successful. The nature of high risk ops is that they're high risk and failure is a possibility. Yes a propaganda victory for Al-Qaeda but one for us also.

[Bill Moore]

No propaganda for us from its failure, but from demonstrating we know who they are, where they are, that we have the military capability to strike globally, and that we have the will to do so.

While the title of the article was drama queenish, the article didn't focus on the raid, but Al-Shabaab overall. Don't mind discussing this elsewhere, but I don't want to sideline the discussion focused on the Westgate Mall attack.

I understand your point about propaganda value, that is a risk. Imagine the propaganda value to Al-Qaeda if the raid on UBL would have failed? It is risk that is considered as part of planning. I have no insight if the raid on Somalia was carried out in haste and if that contributed to its failure or not. On the other hand, a lot of our targets are not static, and our ability to respond quickly to perishable information on the target is essential in today's fight.

[carl]

No propaganda for us from its failure, but from demonstrating we know who they are, where they are, that we have the military capability to strike globally, and that we have the will to do so.

That would be propaganda value only if lessened their will and determinstion. There has been little evidence that it has.

That is so mainly I think because while they have little doubt about our knowing who they are, where they are, and that we can strike wherever; I think they have grave doubts about our long term will. A SEAL raid that they defeated isn't going to impress them.

Amendment to the above: I got to thinking, we don't know for sure who pulled off the Westgate Mall attack and we sure as heck don't know where they are. So that doesn't leave us much to impress them with.