Improving PSYOP (and CA as a tangent)

[reed11b]

But take for intance the E4 I know in PSYOP with an MBA - I don't think he'd argue that his job is going to require him utilize that education in his job. I don't jack squat about being an infantryman - but Reed does - Reed, would you argue that when the #### hits the fan in *your* tactical arena (bullets flying all around) your frontal cortex is fully engaged? I know mine shuts off when dealing with novel fight or flight stimuli.

One, I am far far from the most experienced war fighter in this counsel. You should make that an open question. My experience is that no, when heavily engaged, I was not 100% cerebral. However heavily engaged was a rarity and most engagements allowed, in fact demanded, a thinking approach.
Two, on top of this, our day to day interactions with non-combatants had secondary and on-going effects, so we constantly had to consider our actions. The hostility towards PSYOPS and occasionally CA is the attitude that PSYOPS is a PSYOPS thing, you grunts wouldn't understand. Try us, we do it day to day.
It is also OK, even encouraged at times to just state that you agree to disagree and drop a topic if no new information is being brought forth.
Reed

[Voodoun]

<The hostility towards PSYOPS and occasionally CA is the attitude that PSYOPS is a PSYOPS thing, you grunts wouldn't understand. Try us, we do it day to day.>

All this from the relatively amused suggestion that maybe the reason we were trained to cuff our sleeves if it was scorching hot was because our jobs were more cerebral and we were less likely to be dealing with hot brass than an 11b.

Its *amazing* how deep some of this animosity runs!

Reed, absolutely - every PSYOPer out there should utilize his supported unit to be a force multiplier for his PSYOP mission.

Now let me turn this around a bit though. A good number of the tankers, MPs, 11b's, etc, that I've come across, are so far from culturally aware its embrassing. On FTX's when I've got the N word being flung around, and rag head this, and camel jockey that, and let me tell you the story about the time I shot a haji in his leg and he fell down 2 stories cracking his head open like a watermelon, and that bitch started wailing 'lulululululululu!" and don't touch 'em cause they've all got #### on their left hands, I find myself sitting off to the side with a couple other guys shaking our heads. I've made it a point to address this with my Unit twice so far, but when we're training with other units, no one is going to listen to one word we have to say - I've seen what happens when an E7 enters a hooch and tries to explain why maybe these sort of antics aren't the wisest move. As soon as he leaves everyone just starts making fun of him. And there's two of us off to the side just looking at eachother, with no idea what to do.

So while PSYOP and CA may come across as arrogant sometime, there's a reason.

When I was in Basic Training I was 30 years old. I had some 18 year old kid decide I must be an al Qaeda spy because I had a funny name, I was brown, and I told him to ease up when he was regaling us all with stories about how he was going to kill dirty hajis. (there was a 40 year old Iraqi 09L in our Company, btw, and I spoke up because this kid was way out of hand). Mind you, this AQ spy thing didnt stop with the one guy, it went on all cycle long.



That sort of thing colors our perceptions. Sure, PSYOP needs to rise above it, but let's be clear, there's some call for what you're seeing on your end.

[RTK]

Reed, would you argue that when the #### hits the fan in *your* tactical arena (bullets flying all around) your frontal cortex is fully engaged? I know mine shuts off when dealing with novel fight or flight stimuli.

Depends on how you deal with stress and process information. Can you integrate the 5 aspects of weather, the 5 aspects of terrain, the 7 forms of contact, safe distance zones, backdrops, weapons effects, mitigation of collateral damage, then look at both the pros and cons of each in a split second while, at the same time, weighing the combat multipliers, organic and inorganic to your unit, and bring them all to bear properly in a reasonable amount of time in order to maximize your element's opportunities for success in closing with and destroying your enemy?

Some see that as cerebral. Others see it as instinct after being well trained. Stress innoculation training, that is, to place Soldiers and Marines in those situations in a training environment that best replicate combat conditions. Others call it OODA. Whatever your thoughts are, warfare is cerebral whether you're yelling "gunner, sabot, tank" or dealing with how best to build a school in an impoverished area.

our day to day interactions with non-combatants had secondary and on-going effects, so we constantly had to consider our actions. The hostility towards PSYOPS and occasionally CA is the attitude that PSYOPS is a PSYOPS thing, you grunts wouldn't understand. Try us, we do it day to day.

I worked with 3 TPTs and 2 CA teams over two years. I can speak to the condescension firsthand. I'm fairly competent and well-read in a number of different areas. It astonished the TPT team that I knew their sole purpose wasn't to dump leaflets all over my 54 villages in my AO. They were speechless when I explained I knew their mission was to demoralize the enemy by causing dissension and unrest among his ranks, while at the same time convincing the local population to support American troops and providing me with atmospherics and the attitudes and behaviors of those I was trying to help and those who I was trying to capture or kill.

I think too many CA and PSYOP teams go into a OPCON/TACON relationship expecting to get the shaft. Many more enter into the relationship believing wholeheartedly they're going to get used and abused. Abused children abuse their own children. I think it's become so expected (and I think wrongly so) that it clouds candid and open discussion from the get go.

If anything, that might be the first thing that needs to get ironed out before all else in the CF/PSYOP/CA relationships.

[Voodoun]

<Depends on how you deal with stress and process information. Can you integrate the 5 aspects of weather, the 5 aspects of terrain, the 7 forms of contact, safe distance zones, backdrops, weapons effects, mitigation of collateral damage, then look at both the pros and cons of each in a split second while, at the same time, weighing the combat multipliers, organic and inorganic to your unit, and bring them all to bear properly in a reasonable amount of time in order to maximize your element's opportunities for success in closing with and destroying your enemy?>

Nope, sure can't. Wouldnt have a clue how to start.

[Stan]

Depends on how you deal with stress and process information. Can you integrate the 5 aspects of weather, the 5 aspects of terrain, the 7 forms of contact, safe distance zones, backdrops, weapons effects, mitigation of collateral damage, then look at both the pros and cons of each in a split second while, at the same time, weighing the combat multipliers, organic and inorganic to your unit, and bring them all to bear properly in a reasonable amount of time in order to maximize your element's opportunities for success in closing with and destroying your enemy?

Some see that as cerebral. Others see it as instinct after being well trained. Stress innoculation training, that is, to place Soldiers and Marines in those situations in a training environment that best replicate combat conditions.

Nope, sure can't. Wouldn't have a clue how to start.

This has been one of literally hundreds of points made thus far. You may refute and argue these issues right up to the point you are in-country for the first 30 days. On that date, even a PhD won't save your alpha.

Diplomats around the globe are quasi centrally-managed because they tend to open their mouth, spout intellect and get the US Military into trouble, but are rarely around thereafter.

Please do us one favor: Get off the hot brass on the forearm already. You've taken it so far out of context.

[ODB]

I am now getting knee deep into FM 33-1-1 and FM 3-05.30 (Psychological Operations). As if I didn't already have enough psycological issues.....