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  1. #1
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    To give two examples. There is no legal requirement for gun owners to report a firearm stolen; I'm not sure whether this means ATF, FBI, state or local have responsibility. Sorry I cannot link to a source article.
    There is no requirement to report stolen property of any kind. Even if there was, I don't know what good it would do with firearms. Almost nobody knows what the serial number of the weapon was. One thing I always thought would be helpful was if the manufacturers made the serial number big on the gun and in some sort of contrasting color. That makes it easier for the owner's to see and record the number. It's great when you get a guy and can actually prove that any weapon he had is stolen, frustrating though because you mostly can't.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Posted by Bob's World

    I think about thing differently than most, and that I tend to spend
    more time attempting to sort out why things are the way they are in a quest to find insights to offer to guide the efforts of the decision makers above me.
    I don't disagree and your insights are often helpful and informative, but as you know one size seldom fits all. This gets to my or our next point.

    What I am talking about is the art of strategy. What does one understand about the things going on around them, how does that make them think about the guidance they have received, and what recommendations or questions does that suggest to inform how everyone can get to a better place at the least possible cost and with the lowest likelihood of negative consequences.
    No daylight between us on this observation. At least in the military, and I see it in other government agencies also, we're quick to label a problem (insurgency, terrorism, gun violence, drunk driving, drugs, etc.) and then apply some doctrinal approach and adjust our foolish measurements or what we measure so we can demonstrate success (and maintain funding for our efforts). Despite lip service to the contrary we spend very little time gaining understanding of the problem, to include the real root causes (even if we can't fix them, we should endeavor to understand them). Einstein allegedly said something along the lines that if I had an hour to solve a problem I would spend 59 minutes gaining understanding of it first, and then a minute to solve it. We don't produce thinkers like that in our mass education system, and that includes the military PME system. I don't know if it is possible to produce thinkers like that, but when they're identified they should be treated as a high value item that needs to be protected, but more often than not we send them to our version of re-education camps to ensure they conform to our "group think."

    Most strategists focus on identifying and cataloging lists of things that are, and then applying against those lists the framework of guidance from their own boss and bosses higher in the command structure. This is important, but is the science of strategy. What can I measure, what have I been told to do, how do I apply that at my level. This is objectively assessable.
    I think, but I'm not sure, what this paragraph is getting after?

    I don't think we prioritize the art of strategy as highly as we should, nor do I think we attempt to identify early and nurture over time that type of artistic talent in the US military.
    As stated above we tend to destroy it, the only ones that can openly express this type of talent are Admirals and Generals (assumed they had and retained this ability after years of suppressing it). The critics in the media still serve us well.

    Instead we seem to think that once one achieves a certain rank or educational degree, or is assigned to a headquarters commanded by a person possessing a certain number of stars that one is automatically "strategic." That, IMO, is "arrogant."
    Couldn't agree more.

    We are, too often, the very type of "intelligent fool" as discussed by Mr. Einstein below. I too often count myself within that number of intelligent fools. The only difference in me is that I actively seek to avoid that natural tendency that Einstein described. I realize sometimes that makes others uncomfortable. Just shut up and color, right? There is a comfort in following orders and applying tactics with vigor and effectiveness. We have become too comfortable in that regard. We need to start trying to make ourselves uncomfortable, as that is what leads to discovery and growth.
    Lot's of people are uncomfortable, discovering, and growing. Perhaps more than you give credit for. The issue is changing the system that does become more complex and engrained overtime. That is the nature of bureaucracies. They don't tend to gravitate to simple and effective, rather their processes and rule books just get thicker and thicker, and result in serious snagnation.

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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    There is no requirement to report stolen property of any kind. Even if there was, I don't know what good it would do with firearms. Almost nobody knows what the serial number of the weapon was.
    carl, you can work around that somewhat. If the weapon was bought at a legal gun store,etc. the serial number will be recorded by the seller, which can be matched with the name of the purchaser.

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    carl, you can work around that somewhat. If the weapon was bought at a legal gun store,etc. the serial number will be recorded by the seller, which can be matched with the name of the purchaser.
    Now i find this out. How long do they keep the records?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    Now i find this out. How long do they keep the records?
    Can't remember the exact time limit but it is a good while(years) ATF will know it is done by their regulation.

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    Default Record "Warehousing"

    I'd be willing to bet that somewhere, someplace a warehouse exists that houses seller's records showing that I purchased .22 cal rimfire match ammunition by the "brick" - late 70s and early 80s.

    I'd also bet that the bet can't be proved one way or the other because the old handwriten records are not in a form that can be "data mined". On the other hand, those records may be in some landfill or gone up in smoke.

    Not that it makes any difference because all of that ammo was expended on punching paper decades ago.

    Regards

    Mike

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    I just got back from the grocery store and at every check out stand there were two racks of the National Enquirer with the name and a big photo of the criminal who killed the children in Connecticut displayed on the front page. There he was, where everybody could see. He made it up there with Oprah. And every disturbed evil young man sees that and will be imagining his face there.

    I talked to the store manager and told her of my outrage at this sight. She said she understood, agreed and would pass it on but there was nothing she could do about it. All the suits were at home and wouldn't be in until tomorrow. So I will do my best to follow it up tomorrow.

    There is nothing anybody can do about the Enquirer doing what they do but the stores that sell that paper maybe can be got to. My local store is King Sooper, a branch of Kroger. If you care to, maybe that is something we as individuals can do, tell them that they don't have to dance to the tune the Enquirer plays. They don't have to sell that issue.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Carl,

    Elsewhere I have read, possibly on Mother Jones, that a Californian public workers pension fund has withdrawn support for an investment in a gun-maker and others using the power of the US$ have taken action.
    davidbfpo

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