SMALL WARS COUNCIL
Go Back   Small Wars Council > Small Wars Participants & Stakeholders > Historians

Historians The practice of history, and historical analysis. See FAQ for where to discuss history relevant to other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2006   #1
SWJED
Small Wars Journal
 
SWJED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 3,988
Default Rhodesian COIN (consolidated thread, inc original RLI)

Moderator's Note

I have consolidated four RFI threads into this:All matters Rhodesian / Rhodesia (merged thread)

A lot of information sits in the main thread: Rhodesian COIN (consolidated thread, inc original RLI) and the recently published book: Africa's Commandos - new book on the RLI (Now in Historians arena).

As the war in Rhodesia was within a region wracked by conflict it is worth checking another thread: South Africa's COIN war in SWA/Namibia/Angola and COIN in Africa: The Portuguese Way of War, 1961–1974 (Now in Historians arena).

A debate over the Rhodesian tactic 'Fireforce' is found in the Afghan context: Moving the Rhod. Fire Force concept to Afghanistan?

A general search finds Rhodesia / Rhodesian appears in over a hundred threads, often in book lists for example. (Ends).



H/T to Erik who sent in a link to this online book - Counterinsurgency in Rhodesia (link no longer works) by J. K. Cilliers. The book was written in 1985; here are the chapters:
  • Brief History of the War for Zimbabwe 1890 - 1979
  • Command and Control
  • Protected and Consolidated Villages
  • Border Minefield Obstacles
  • Psuedo Operations and the Selous Scouts
  • Internal Defence and Development
  • External Operations
  • Operation Favour: Security Force Auxiliaries
  • Intelligence
  • The Security Situation by Late 1979
  • Conclusion

Was a separate thread and merged today

Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-03-2017 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Mods note added. Link update in brackets).
SWJED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006   #2
bismark17
Council Member
 
bismark17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 206
Default

On the same vein, I really liked Lt. Col. Reid Daly's book on the Selous Scouts and Barbara Cole wrote an excellent book on the Rhodesian SAS.
bismark17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #3
sgmgrumpy
Council Member
 
sgmgrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ft Leavenworth Kansas
Posts: 168
Talking Rhodesian Insurgency

Does anyone have any good references for research. on Rhodesian Fire Force Units from this conflict. Found a Rhodesian COIN Manual, but any papers I would be highly interested in.

Thanks

Last edited by sgmgrumpy; 07-06-2006 at 04:31 PM. Reason: fatfingers
sgmgrumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #4
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default I have several

sgmgrumpy,

I have quite a few documents, although most were pulled from these links: http://www.rhodesia.nl/rhomil.htm http://www.rhodesianforces.org/Pages...competence.htm

I have a couple other documents given to me by Mr. Charles Melsom of the Marine Corps History Division. PM me with a snail mail address and I can provide copies.

S/F,

JC
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #5
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default For others who may be interested

I will be sending two documents to sgmgrumpy. One is a visualization of Fireforce tactics given to me by Chuck Melsom (another Rhodesian military follower) of the History and Museums division. The second is a copy of an external operation OPORD. It is similar to the basic SMEAC format, but the coordinating instructions are a gem because there is insight into how the
Rhodies thought and planned.

I only have them hardcopy now, but intend to scan and build into a .pdf. PM me if you'd like a copy.
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #6
SWJED
Small Wars Journal
 
SWJED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 3,988
Default Copy please...

If there are no copyright restrictions I will post the docs to the SWJ Library.
SWJED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #7
Tom Odom
Council Member
 
Tom Odom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
Default Another on COIN in Rhodesia

Here is a link to download an out of print book from the Institute for Security Studies in South Africa

http://www.iss.co.za/index.php?link_...e=12&tmpl_id=3

Just found it so I can't comment on it.

Best
Tom
Tom Odom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #8
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default

SWJED posted that in an earlier thread, and it is a really good reference. Although Covos Day is the publisher, the OPORD (in an annex) might not be copyrighted. I will investigate a bit.

And before I forget, one of the comprehensive Fireforce references is a book called The Chopper Boys: Helicopter Warfare in Africa by A.J. Venter. ALthough much of it is anecdotal, is as current as Somalia, and the Rhodie part is similar to previously published J.R.T. Wood material, it is a rich book that I consider a prize on my bookshelf. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/185...lance&n=283155

Last edited by jcustis; 07-06-2006 at 11:52 PM.
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006   #9
slapout9
Council Member
 
slapout9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,811
Default Is this the same guy?

jcustis, If Charles Melsom is the same guy I think he is, he helped me on a close combat project I was working on for LE officers. Dealt with point shooting and other hand to hand combat. He is an expert in the USMC contibution in this area all the way back to China Marines and what they learned. At the time he was a major about to retire. Wrote a couple of very good books if he is the same guy. I wondered what happened to him. This is very strange if this is the same guy. I was ambushed by a stalker at my home some years ago and I survived based upon some of his research. my experience is know taught at some police officer survival courses. If this is the same guy I would really like to contact him about this. Can you help??
slapout9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006   #10
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default On second glance

I just looked at the documents, and the last name is actually Melson, and his bio is here: http://www.nps.gov/wapa/indepth/extC...21-00/sec5.htm

If he's the gentleman you're looking for, I can work the connections.
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006   #11
arty8
Council Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 15
Default "Fireforce" by Chris Cocks

One of the best primary sources I've read on the Rhodesian Light Infantry. This book is worth reading and rereading. I thought it was particularly interesting how all their vehciles were designed to survive mine explosions, and this was back in 1979.
arty8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006   #12
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default Fireforce...Concur wholeheartedly

That was where I was going to share the op order with sgmgrumpy. Great book.
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006   #13
slapout9
Council Member
 
slapout9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,811
Default It's him

It is him! I have 2 books by him and I compared author photos to his Bio picture. I just cannot believe this. Without boring you of the details I had been to many Army sources with no help at all, so I told it to the Marines and it worked out great. I actually ended up getting a copy of a declassified OSS training film from some connections he gave me. Anyway I guess we should do the PM thing so as not to disrupt the discussion. Thanks so much for your help.
slapout9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006   #14
sgmgrumpy
Council Member
 
sgmgrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ft Leavenworth Kansas
Posts: 168
Thumbs up Good Info

Thanks for all the help.
sgmgrumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2006   #15
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default Materials in the mail

I sent the docs off to you sgmgrumpy. For the fireforce material, I am working on getting them into a .pdf.
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006   #16
carpsf03
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 1
Default Rhodesian COIN Manual

Can any one point in the direction of a Rhodesian COIN manual available for download?
carpsf03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006   #17
franksforum
Council Member
 
franksforum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oakton, VA
Posts: 23
Default

I believe this should help.

http://members.tripod.com/selousscou...oin_manual.htm

I'll try again. If this doesn't work, here is the external link to the book. Need Adobe Acrobat reader.

http://www.iss.co.za/pubs/Books/rhodesia/Contents.htm - Cached

Last edited by Jedburgh; 08-25-2006 at 09:19 PM.
franksforum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006   #18
jcustis
Council Member
 
jcustis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,143
Default Two different documents

To clarify, those links are to two different documents. The Cilliers book is a recap of sorts, while the material from the Selous Scouts page is the Anti-Terrorist Operations (ATOPS) manual. Two different documents altogether.
jcustis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #19
Jedburgh
Council Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,097
Default

A student paper from last year's Key Strategic Issues List:

The Rhodesian Insurgency: A Failure of Regional Politics
Quote:
This Strategy Research Project (SRP) will examine the impact that regional politics had on the outcome of the Rhodesian insurgency that was fought between 1965 and 1980. Specifically, it will focus on how the foreign policy of South Africa in conjunction with the foreign policies of the U.S. and Britain affected the outcome of the insurgency and ultimately led to the fall of the white-rule government in Rhodesia. The central position of this SRP is that the outcome of the Rhodesian insurgency was determined by the political goals of South Africa, the regional power. The U.S., Britain, and the other western powers were pre-occupied with the Cold War and allowed South Africa to set the strategic agenda in Southern Africa during the period of the Rhodesian insurgency. This study will briefly describe the military developments and economic aspects of the insurgency, as well as the diplomatic developments that led to Rhodesia losing its war against the nationalist insurgents.
Jedburgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #20
Rifleman
Council Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 499
Default

The Rhodesian armed forces were tactically superior to their enemies and yet today Rhodesia is no more.

Seems like the lesson is that good tactics usually can't compensate for poor strategy in the long run; and, like it or not, strategy is sometimes more political than military.

Are we seeing a repeat of that in the middle east?
Rifleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
coin, counter insurgency, counterinsurgency, history, informants, intelligence, recce, reconnaissance, rhodesia, south africa, zimbabwe

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Soviet experience in and leaving Afghanistan kaur OEF - Afghanistan 40 04-05-2013 03:52 PM
Teach Your Organization the Basics of Counterinsurgency: COIN OPD/NCOPD Instruction Cavguy Training & Education 0 04-21-2009 04:00 PM
In COIN how do we describe the relationship of the levels of war? Rob Thornton Futurists & Theorists 76 09-11-2007 03:45 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9. ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Registered Users are solely responsible for their messages.
Operated by, and site design 2005-2009, Small Wars Foundation