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Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #381
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    This US journalist fully understands what Putin and his hardliners are planning for the "New Russia".

    A solid article.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...d33_story.html

    Some commenters here thought one could just talk with Putin as the way forward---people do have to listen to and read what comes out of Putin and his circle of advisors currently.

    For example---this from September 2013:

    In September 2013, when the Ukrainian authorities still discussed the prospects of signing the Association Agreement with the EU, Putin’s aide Sergey Glazyev explicitly stated that if Ukraine signed the Agreement, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine’s status as a state and could intervene “if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow”. The Ukrainian revolution that set the country on the pro-European course was a signal for Moscow to launch that Plan B.

    This appears to not be the case for senior US leaders---no US strategy as of yet has been seen in the Ukrainian crisis. The WH must at some point realize the US signature on the Budapest Memorandum was an implied promise in exchange for giving up nuclear weapons--if the US fails to upload this Memorandum then what country will ever believe the US in the coming years?

    From the NATO 2008 Bucharest Summit Conference:

    23.NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. MAP is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications. We have asked Foreign Ministers to make a first assessment of progress at their December 2008 meeting. Foreign Ministers have the authority to decide on the MAP applications of Ukraine and Georgia.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-29-2014 at 08:37 PM.

  2. #382
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    I am not the only one noticing the lack of US leadership at the WH levels.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-invasion.html

    The senior military commanders at NATO, officials at the State Department, and, yes, even the president of the United States proved Thursday that they have a perfectly clear idea what Russian President Vladimir Putin is doing in Ukraine. They just don’t want to say the word out loud.

    But by playing semantic games, the Obama administration and European leaders are playing Putin’s game. “Confusion,” as a NATO briefer explained Thursday, “is part and parcel of this Russian hybrid warfare strategy.” We are watching an invasion using subversion, coercion, and somewhat limited military action. But it’s an invasion nonetheless. And when you refuse to call things by their real names, you are not only confusing the people who hear you, you’re accepting Putin’s obfuscations. You are sending a signal that says any Western response to his actions will be inconsequential.

    President Barack Obama, a very sober leader who believes deeply in the use of “soft power,” the influence of economic incentives, the building of coalitions, and, in that overall context, the usefulness of “diplomatic ambiguity” to leave as many options open as possible, clearly feels that the word “invasion” would foreclose too many of them.

    Obama knows invasion is a "fightin' word," as they used to say in old Hollywood Westerns. And he knows -- and we all know -- a shootout in the Ukraine corral against the world's other great nuclear power would be beyond foolish. But under the circumstances, even such a stalwart of administration policymaking as Ivo Daalder has run out of patience with the vague language coming out of Foggy Bottom and the White House

    After all, Putin has shown his imperial appetite knows no bounds, and the tactics he's used to shave off portions of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine could be turned on the NATO-member Baltics. Daalder also calls on Western countries to supply advance weapons and a steady stream of intelligence to Kiev. And finally the U.S. and the E.U. need to impose full-scale economic sanctions on Moscow.

    “Let’s be clear: Russia has invaded Ukraine,” Daalder wrote in the Financial Times on Thursday. “We can debate the reasons. But we can no longer debate the fact.”
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-29-2014 at 08:49 PM.

  3. #383
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    Default Russia invades, some of NATO to plan a division's creation

    A NATO summit next week in Wales looms and as Russia invades the Ukraine, the FT reports David Cameron will announce 'NATO to establish new rapid deployment division, 10,000 troops, UK led + 6 other countries'.

    The FT report is behind a free registration 'wall' and refers to:
    ...Denmark, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Norway and the Netherlands. Canada has also expressed an interest in taking part.
    Link:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5335d904-2...#axzz3BoINbE86

    This is nothing short of pathetic. A multi-national division, even of the 'willing' who have served together in Afghanistan and in NATO will take a long time to become effective. More "smoke & mirrors" being spun.
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    A NATO summit next week in Wales looms and as Russia invades the Ukraine, the FT reports David Cameron will announce 'NATO to establish new rapid deployment division, 10,000 troops, UK led + 6 other countries'.

    The FT report is behind a free registration 'wall' and refers to:

    Link:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5335d904-2...#axzz3BoINbE86

    This is nothing short of pathetic. A multi-national division, even of the 'willing' who have served together in Afghanistan and in NATO will take a long time to become effective. More "smoke & mirrors" being spun.
    Not only that, there will be so many national caveats that it will likely be politically impossible to deploy them rapidly if at all. I agree it appears to be smoke and mirrors and it will convince NATO themselves that they're taking action (by taking no action). Who wrote that political science isn't a science, its a dodge? I should remember, but I'm having a senior moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    I am not the only one noticing the lack of US leadership at the WH levels.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-invasion.html

    The senior military commanders at NATO, officials at the State Department, and, yes, even the president of the United States proved Thursday that they have a perfectly clear idea what Russian President Vladimir Putin is doing in Ukraine. They just don’t want to say the word out loud.

    But by playing semantic games, the Obama administration and European leaders are playing Putin’s game. “Confusion,” as a NATO briefer explained Thursday, “is part and parcel of this Russian hybrid warfare strategy.” We are watching an invasion using subversion, coercion, and somewhat limited military action. But it’s an invasion nonetheless. And when you refuse to call things by their real names, you are not only confusing the people who hear you, you’re accepting Putin’s obfuscations. You are sending a signal that says any Western response to his actions will be inconsequential.

    President Barack Obama, a very sober leader who believes deeply in the use of “soft power,” the influence of economic incentives, the building of coalitions, and, in that overall context, the usefulness of “diplomatic ambiguity” to leave as many options open as possible, clearly feels that the word “invasion” would foreclose too many of them.

    Obama knows invasion is a "fightin' word," as they used to say in old Hollywood Westerns. And he knows -- and we all know -- a shootout in the Ukraine corral against the world's other great nuclear power would be beyond foolish. But under the circumstances, even such a stalwart of administration policymaking as Ivo Daalder has run out of patience with the vague language coming out of Foggy Bottom and the White House

    After all, Putin has shown his imperial appetite knows no bounds, and the tactics he's used to shave off portions of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine could be turned on the NATO-member Baltics. Daalder also calls on Western countries to supply advance weapons and a steady stream of intelligence to Kiev. And finally the U.S. and the E.U. need to impose full-scale economic sanctions on Moscow.

    “Let’s be clear: Russia has invaded Ukraine,” Daalder wrote in the Financial Times on Thursday. “We can debate the reasons. But we can no longer debate the fact.”
    They are going to go as far as Europe and no further. And Europe does seem to be set to go further. ( http://online.wsj.com/articles/eu-mi...ine-1409319315 ) The big question is, what more is now on the table? Ukraine is asking for military aid. At some point, I think that is on the table. We will see.

  6. #386
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    We talk a lot here about the rule of law and good governance being decided by the population involved in the decisions.

    Then that population makes the choice and then is basically covered with a UW from Russia and then decides to fight back with a rag tag military/independent fighters and defend what we the US signed we would do--protect their territorial sovereignty if they gave up the single thing that would have stopped this Russian invasion--nuclear weapons the greatest equalizer.

    I do believe the US did sign the Budapest Memorandum the last time I read the document.

    And what do we get from US senior political leaders --"a tap dance" and five minutes worth of mentioning in a press conference.

    And "a tap dance" in the future will never convince another country to sign any agreements with the US that will affect their national sovereignty.

    For those that want an overview of the Independent BN "Donbas" which was the premier independent fighting BN during the last five months---currently surrounded and trapped by an actual Russian Airborne Regt the 331st--which was the last time I checked a Russian military unit inside the Ukraine which is at the least the underlying definition of an "armed invasion" and not an "incursion".

    ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl

    Can anyone here at SWJ explain to me in simple English why it is so hard for a US senior decision maker to utter the word "invasion"---at that level truth to power must be the underlying feature of a "democracy" if it even exists.

    They were given basically the order yesterday evening to surrender by 0600 this morning or die and want does the US/NATO/EU "talk" and we the US just keep on "tap dancing". They have answered back we will die fighting--is that not the ultimate that a soldier can do for a population that made it's own decision concerning "the rule of law and good governance" while others simply "talk and tap dance".

    "Talk" has been always cheap for the US, but when a population stands up and makes a rule of law and good governance decision effecting their own future and we stand by with absolutely no support other than "talk"/tap dance"---then it is time to tell the world that we are actually a "pipe dream" nothing more nothing less.

    And that is what Putin wants---this has been about values since the beginning of the Crimea. actually back to his taking power in 2001
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-30-2014 at 07:02 AM.

  7. #387
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    This is an excellent video on the Russian propaganda machine---referencing Georgia but fits the Ukraine as well if one has watched the Russia info war unfold the last six months.

    About one hour in length--

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8AI...ature=youtu.be

  8. #388
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    Something the US civilian decision makers need to understand.

    Strategy--the effective use of time and space--Napoleon

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    Definitely not what the US Army trained the Russian Peacekeeping Bde in 2012 and 2013.

    Alleged leaflet, spread by "little green men" in #Novoazovsk, calling themselves "Russian army" and "peacekeepers".

    pic.twitter.com/lFqn7xrzHO


    @MiddleEast_BRK All of this would have been avoided if Angela Merkel hadn't blocked Ukraine & Georgia from joining Nato back in 2008. @NATO


    BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking

    Russia in "state of war" with #Ukraine & effectively at war with Europe, Lithuania's president says http://bbc.in/1psedVe
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-30-2014 at 05:32 PM.

  10. #390
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    Look who is now representing nthe Russian irregulars, Russian Army and Russian mercenaries in eastern Ukraine at the 1 Sept Minks meeting.

    Purgin to represent #Donetsk People’s Republic at September 1 Minsk talks - RIA

    What is interesting---while Russia "claimed" that it was always about the Ukraine joining the EU--what they really want is the EU to change their internal rules to allow for free trade for Russian products--that is the real core demand not the EU membership for the Ukraine.

    BREAKING #RUS Minister of Economics threatened EU w counter measures if Europe won't bend on #Russia demands on association agreement w #UKR
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-30-2014 at 05:48 PM.

  11. #391
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    Russian soldiers cannot seem to understand opsec---still using social media and talking about their routes to the Ukraine.

    Meanwhile #Russian regular army heading to #Ukraine is publishing its route on social network.

    http://niklife.com.ua/focus/44757

    pic.twitter.com/xB0JtjBpw3

  12. #392
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    For those that think the Russian info war is a not a factor in molding the minds of both Russians and ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine.


    #Russian GRU agent Semyon Pegov & fake @lifenews_ru journalist owns an automatic weapon!
    Q's?
    pic.twitter.com/A2nWnXR583

  13. #393
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    To place Russia in the perspective of things--ie they believe they are an economic superpower but really are a second rate developing country exporting two raw resources and that is about it.

    GDP of #Russia ($2.015 trillion) vs. GDP of #California ($1.959 trillion)

    pic.twitter.com/WOpF16H1Pm

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    This is why I have said a number of times here--Putin and company are in an altered state of reality having truly believed their own propaganda. They really do believe in the new Putin Doctrine---meaning where ever ethnic Russians live Russia has a right to protect them and annex them back into the former Soviet Union.

    Russia calls Poland's ban on Shoigu flight "blasphemous attack against the historical merits of those who saved EU from fascism"

    Yesterday Putin even called into question of the right for Kazakhstan to continue to exist since it also has Russian citizens within their borders in his school question and answer session.

    This was today the response from Kazakhstan after Putin in his school interview yesterday actually raised the questioned concerning the existence of Kazakhstan since there also ethnic Russians living there.

    This is the response today by the President of Kazakhstan who was not in the least bit impressed by Putin's comments.

    http://m.tengrinews.kz/en/politics_s...rbayev-255722/

    Another example of this altered state of reality:

    "Seen in #Novoazovsk :Soviet flag and flag of RU empire in one place.
    pic.twitter.com/fXhKyeKLrG”"
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-30-2014 at 06:43 PM.

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    An interesting article for those commenters here over the last several months that assumed one could negotiate with Putin if only one understands his complaints against the West.

    The West needs to understand one cannot negotiate with a ethno neo imperialist bent on reestablishing the Soviet Union.

    Taken from the Daily Beast:

    Putin Mocks the West, Puts His Own Prestige on the Line

    By proclaiming his support for Novorossiya, the old imperial name for eastern and southern Ukraine, Putin signals he won’t back away from the fight.

    MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin ratcheted up his rhetorical-historical claims on eastern Ukraine Friday, even as pro-Russian rebels and their allies among the separatist rebels pushed forward there with a new offensive.

    The lead headline on the Kremlin’s own Web site declared that Putin had “addressed the Novorossiya militia,” a clear and unequivocal sign that Putin is putting his own prestige on the line to back the separatist movement. That fact will make it harder for him to back down (if he had any such inclination) and therefore much harder for an increasingly fretful Europe and the United States to come to terms with him.

    The statement made it obvious Putin does not consider the southeastern regions of Ukraine to be sovereign, but sees them, still, as part of Russia’s once and future empire. Putin even offered, in a gesture of noblesse oblige, to help evacuate Ukrainian soldiers trapped by the militias and troops he supports.

    Praising these pro-Russian fighters, Putin highlighted their “major success in intercepting Kiev’s military operation, which represents a grave danger to the population of Donbass [that is, eastern Ukraine] and which has already led to the loss of many lives among peaceful residents.”

    After months fed a constant diet of relentless, intensive reporting and propaganda about the suffering of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, a majority of Russians now share Putin’s point of view and agree that Russia should be supporting “Novorossiya,” a shift from previously tepid Russian public support for the separatist cause. Independent social polls by the Levada Center showed that 64 percent of Russians blamed the West for the conflict in Ukraine, and 55 percent of respondents thought that Russia should be supporting pro-Russian rebel forces in the southeast.

    In Mariupol soldiers are digging anti-tank trenches and mining the approaches to the town.

    Later on Friday, Putin met with loyal followers at the annual Kremlin-arranged Seliger Camp, which draws tens of thousands of young people each year. The Russian president compared violence by Ukrainian forces to Nazis during World War II. Putin told the young activists that it was time for the West to realize Kiev was not capable of taking control of the eastern regions of Ukraine. Indeed, Putin mocked Western leaders: “Our partners’ position is clear to me,” he said. “’Yes, there should be talks, but in the meantime we need to let Ukrainian troops do a bit of shooting—maybe they will get the situation under control.’”

    Observers, both in Russia and Ukraine, say the Novorossiya rhetoric is potentially very dangerous. Putin mentioned the word before, during the Crimea crises last spring before he annexed the strategic peninsula. But in Crimea a majority of the population wanted to live in Russia. In the southeastern regions of Ukraine Putin is confronted with a deeply divided population.

    “All we really care about is that nobody bombs our homes, our schools and kindergartens,” Lyudmila Zakharenko told The Daily Beast on the central square of Sloviansk, which was once the center of pro-Russian rebel resistance. Most residents there switched their opinion from pro-Russian to pro-Ukrainian once the rebel forces were pushed out of town.

    The Kremlin never bothered to find out the real support for Russian intervention among the people of Novoazovsk before it sent its troops to help take the town earlier this week. Neither has it asked the people of Mariupol, the port that seems to be next on the Russian/rebel line of march.

    When Putin’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov was asked if Purin really meant to signal his inclination to annex a large part of Ukraine, he danced around the topic. “If you look back at history, it was called Novorossiya for several hundreds of years,” said Peskov. “That’s why this is absolutely, say, the Russian name for that territory.”

    People in Mariupol appear unconvinced. As the threat loomed of an imminent attack by the separatists, many Ukrainians decided not to wait for the day of annexation: middle class families packed up and moved further away, to Odessa.

    Devoted Ukrainian patriots—and those who had no place to go—stayed to help the Ukrainian Ninth Battalion, the National Guards and the Dnepr-1 paramilitary force prepare to defend the city, where soldiers are digging anti-tank trenches and mining the approaches to the town.

    Civil society groups, meanwhile, are training young people to provide each other with first aid. In downtown Mariupol, a seaport with a population of about half a million people, protesters came out in support of the Ukrainian government. “Mariupol is Ukraine!” read one popular sign among the demonstrators. “Where is Novorossiya?” asked another.



    .

  16. #396
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    Here is what is interesting about the apparent lack of US leadership and one must begin to seriously ask the question can the current national command authority actually "lead" and or think up a single "strategy"?

    When dealing with the now Russia formerly the Soviet Union we see a general trend to eliminate, ignore and or invalidate memorandums, treaties, agreements that were signed by former Soviet leaders by the current Russian leader Putin--why because in his and his hardliner advisors' view of the current world these previous decisions were made under "duress" and by basically stupid Communists who did not know what they were doing.

    1. Helsinki Accords---fully violated by Russia
    2. INF--in fact violated and now by the US "parked" for discussions---but a violation is in fact a violation
    3. OSCE agreements---Russia had to destroy over 2000 armored vehicles including T64/72/80 tanks to come into compliance--excuse after excuse provided to the OSCE and still no destruction occurs---actually the same stored tanks are now in the Ukraine
    4. Budapest Memorandum ---completely violated

    New Russian international relations concept referred to as the "Putin Doctrine" which basically states---where ever ethnic Russians reside is my "sphere f influence", and I can do as I want to do in order to defend them--- even annexing territory to do that.

    Repeated statements made by Putin that he was going to "do" something and then it never appeared to be done---blatant lying by a national leader not seen since the 1930s.

    Putin/Russian stated goals of decoupling the US from the EU/NATO, negating NATO and isolating the former Baltics and Poland, natural gas as a controlling economic weapon over Europe---negating and changing the EU to conform to Russian views of EEC.

    The use of natural gas as a tactical tool to force compliance by smaller countries.

    Military actions by Russia to extend their territorial boundaries since 2008.

    1. Georgia
    2. Moldavia
    3. Crimea

    Aggressive overflights of other countries and aggressive actions directed toward US/NATO surveillance in neutral zones since 2013:

    1. Finland
    2. Baltic Sea
    3. Alaska
    4. California coast

    New Russian nuclear military doctrine since 2012 which in fact states---if threatened we can go to first strike without warning-- a complete reversal of the MAD principal.

    Russian military practiced military nuclear strikes against Poland and the Baltics-2014

    New Russian military doctrine New Generation Warfare which is basically a UW strategy in support to a political war.

    1. Carried out in Crimea
    2. Currently being carried out in the Ukraine where in a an eight phase process Russia is currently at phase seven of that doctrine

    So when the NCA sits down at a meeting and sees this daily in his intel briefings---where is the NCA in it's thinking?

    Putin has been able to thoroughly test drive his new military doctrine and the Putin Doctrine in order to physically change borders ---not done since 1945 in Europe.

    So just what does the NCA think these days?

    Has anyone noticed a detailed step by step prime time press conference laying out this development both to the US and global public as the underlining reasons for sanctions that would in fact truly cripple the Russian economy.

    I personally am still waiting for that "painful" step that the WH said was to occur when Putin annexed the Crimea---
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-31-2014 at 08:32 AM.

  17. #397
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    Taken from an article in the INYT from 30 August 2014.

    Notice the comments concerning the Germans which by the way blocked NATO membership for Georgia and the Ukraine in 2008 and who was the European country that pushed for the "carrot and stick" approach that has basically totally failed.

    Basically the lack of US/Obama leadership and the apparent foot dragging by the German Merkel when this is all over is worth a major look at.

    Did both actually "enable" and embolden Putin by their actions?

    BRUSSELS — Accusing Russia of waging a campaign of “military aggression and terror” against his country, President Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine told European leaders here on Saturday that their own countries’ security depended on stopping Russian troops from stoking a conflict in eastern Ukraine that he said could escalate into a wider war.

    His warnings won no pledges of military assistance from the European Union, but helped set the stage for a new round of sanctions against Russia. Leaders ducked an immediate decision on what new measures to take, despite agreeing that Moscow had escalated the conflict sharply in recent days. They instead asked the European Commission, the union’s executive arm, to prepare proposals for expanding existing sanctions, and said these must be ready “for consideration within a week,” according to a statement issued early Sunday.

    Pro-Russian fighters near Novoazovsk, Ukraine. “Now we are fighting for all of southeastern Ukraine, for Novorossiya, which was historically a Russian province,” their commander said.

    Saying that Russia was pushing the conflict in Ukraine toward “the point of no return,” the president of commission, José Manuel Barroso, said European leaders who gathered Saturday in Brussels would endorse new, tougher measures in an effort to make Moscow “come to reason.”

    Some European leaders, particularly those from former Communist nations in Eastern Europe, called for direct military assistance to Ukraine’s badly stretched armed forces, which are battling pro-Russian rebels on three fronts in eastern Ukraine. But officials said a decision on military aid would be left to individual countries.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, speaking early Sunday after the meeting broke up, said that Germany “will certainly not deliver weapons, as this would give the impression that this is a conflict that can be solved militarily.” But she said further sanctions were needed, as “the situation has deteriorated considerably in the last few days,” and would be imposed “if this situation continues.”

    She said it was unclear whether Russia’s actions in Ukraine constituted an invasion under international law, but added that “the sum of all the evidence we have seen so far is that Russian arms and Russian forces are operating on Ukrainian territory.” Despite her numerous phone conversations with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, she said she could not make “a final judgment” on his intentions and whether he might still try to take “further parts of the country under his control.”

    Ukraine’s military said on Saturday that Russian tanks had entered and flattened a small town between the rebel-held city of Luhansk and the Russian border.

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Here is what is interesting about the apparent lack of US leadership and one must begin to seriously ask the question can the current national command authority actually "lead" and or think up a single "strategy"?

    When dealing with the now Russia formerly the Soviet Union we see a general trend to eliminate, ignore and or invalidate memorandums, treaties, agreements that were signed by former Soviet leaders by the current Russian leader Putin--why because in his and his hardliner advisors' view of the current world these previous decisions were made under "duress" and by basically stupid Communists who did not know what they were doing.

    1. Helsinki Accords---fully violated by Russia
    2. INF--in fact violated and now by the US "parked" for discussions---but a violation is in fact a violation
    3. OSCE agreements---Russia had to destroy over 2000 armored vehicles including T64/72/80 tanks to come into compliance--excuse after excuse provided to the OSCE and still no destruction occurs---actually the same stored tanks are now in the Ukraine
    4. Budapest Memorandum ---completely violated

    New Russian international relations concept referred to as the "Putin Doctrine" which basically states---where ever ethnic Russians reside is my "sphere f influence", and I can do as I want to do in order to defend them--- even annexing territory to do that.

    Repeated statements made by Putin that he was going to "do" something and then it never appeared to be done---blatant lying by a national leader not seen since the 1930s.

    Putin/Russian stated goals of decoupling the US from the EU/NATO, negating NATO and isolating the former Baltics and Poland, natural gas as a controlling economic weapon over Europe---negating and changing the EU to conform to Russian views of EEC.

    The use of natural gas as a tactical tool to force compliance by smaller countries.

    Military actions by Russia to extend their territorial boundaries since 2008.

    1. Georgia
    2. Moldavia
    3. Crimea

    Aggressive overflights of other countries and aggressive actions directed toward US/NATO surveillance in neutral zones since 2013:

    1. Finland
    2. Baltic Sea
    3. Alaska
    4. California coast

    New Russian nuclear military doctrine since 2012 which in fact states---if threatened we can go to first strike without warning-- a complete reversal of the MAD principal.

    Russian military practiced military nuclear strikes against Poland and the Baltics-2014

    New Russian military doctrine New Generation Warfare which is basically a UW strategy in support to a political war.

    1. Carried out in Crimea
    2. Currently being carried out in the Ukraine where in a an eight phase process Russia is currently at phase seven of that doctrine

    So when the NCA sits down at a meeting and sees this daily in his intel briefings---where is the NCA in it's thinking?

    Putin has been able to thoroughly test drive his new military doctrine and the Putin Doctrine in order to physically change borders ---not done since 1945 in Europe.

    So just what does the NCA think these days?

    Has anyone noticed a detailed step by step prime time press conference laying out this development both to the US and global public as the underlining reasons for sanctions that would in fact truly cripple the Russian economy.

    I personally am still waiting for that "painful" step that the WH said was to occur when Putin annexed the Crimea---
    In order to full see where and how Putin is slowly but surely rebuilding the Soviet Union check his comments at the school during an interview when he references the Kazahkstan and the implied statement there are also Russians there and Kazahkstan was "never" a country.

    Secondly, when the EU states we are thinking about sanctions in say a week---how far can the Russian troops backing the Russian mercenaries go inside eastern/southern Ukraine in a week? What Odessa or up to Kaliningrad?

    Does anyone in the National Command Authority understand that by not responding immediately to Russian and Putin statements and actions it just "fuels" their belief's that the West is weak, decadent and Russia is all powerful? This is about perception pure and simple.

    Thirdly, in the current "frozen war scenarios" of Georgia and Moldavia and now eastern/southern Ukraine where the Russian Army lands it does not leave so again exactly how are sanctions going to work?---in what 1,3 or 5 years---it has been six years since Georgia and has anyone seen a settlement lately?

    Lastly, if one does not "believe" or want to believe that has been an "invasion" then what was the report today from a Russian journalist in the Donetsk stating he has seen and talked to Russian Army officers and soldiers who have moved into apartments in the city---any yet the President spends only five minutes of time in a press conference on the Ukraine?

    By the way the US stated "incursion" which implies that the aggressor does in fact pull back out---what is then the word when the aggressor remains in the country, continues to kill people and occupies for the long haul apartments---what a military on "vacation" in a strange and new location?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-31-2014 at 10:56 AM.

  19. #399
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    A good example of the "altered state of reality" of Russian oligarchs, Putin and the Russian ultra nationalists.

    Annexing the Crimea and sending Russian troops and heavy weapons into the Ukraine is not war or an invasion or even an incursion, subtle threat implied in Putins' comments against the Kazahkstan is not a threat, tactual nuclear strike exercises against Poland and the Baltics are just exercises not a threat.

    BUT leveling sanctions against Russia and Russian business's is "war" and increases hate.

    Interesting thought patterns.

    http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt...-a-988994.html

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Here is what is interesting about the apparent lack of US leadership and one must begin to seriously ask the question can the current national command authority actually "lead" and or think up a single "strategy"?

    When dealing with the now Russia formerly the Soviet Union we see a general trend to eliminate, ignore and or invalidate memorandums, treaties, agreements that were signed by former Soviet leaders by the current Russian leader Putin--why because in his and his hardliner advisors' view of the current world these previous decisions were made under "duress" and by basically stupid Communists who did not know what they were doing.

    1. Helsinki Accords---fully violated by Russia
    2. INF--in fact violated and now by the US "parked" for discussions---but a violation is in fact a violation
    3. OSCE agreements---Russia had to destroy over 2000 armored vehicles including T64/72/80 tanks to come into compliance--excuse after excuse provided to the OSCE and still no destruction occurs---actually the same stored tanks are now in the Ukraine
    4. Budapest Memorandum ---completely violated

    New Russian international relations concept referred to as the "Putin Doctrine" which basically states---where ever ethnic Russians reside is my "sphere f influence", and I can do as I want to do in order to defend them--- even annexing territory to do that.

    Repeated statements made by Putin that he was going to "do" something and then it never appeared to be done---blatant lying by a national leader not seen since the 1930s.

    Putin/Russian stated goals of decoupling the US from the EU/NATO, negating NATO and isolating the former Baltics and Poland, natural gas as a controlling economic weapon over Europe---negating and changing the EU to conform to Russian views of EEC.

    The use of natural gas as a tactical tool to force compliance by smaller countries.

    Military actions by Russia to extend their territorial boundaries since 2008.

    1. Georgia
    2. Moldavia
    3. Crimea

    Aggressive overflights of other countries and aggressive actions directed toward US/NATO surveillance in neutral zones since 2013:

    1. Finland
    2. Baltic Sea
    3. Alaska
    4. California coast

    New Russian nuclear military doctrine since 2012 which in fact states---if threatened we can go to first strike without warning-- a complete reversal of the MAD principal.

    Russian military practiced military nuclear strikes against Poland and the Baltics-2014

    New Russian military doctrine New Generation Warfare which is basically a UW strategy in support to a political war.

    1. Carried out in Crimea
    2. Currently being carried out in the Ukraine where in a an eight phase process Russia is currently at phase seven of that doctrine

    So when the NCA sits down at a meeting and sees this daily in his intel briefings---where is the NCA in it's thinking?

    Putin has been able to thoroughly test drive his new military doctrine and the Putin Doctrine in order to physically change borders ---not done since 1945 in Europe.

    So just what does the NCA think these days?

    Has anyone noticed a detailed step by step prime time press conference laying out this development both to the US and global public as the underlining reasons for sanctions that would in fact truly cripple the Russian economy.

    I personally am still waiting for that "painful" step that the WH said was to occur when Putin annexed the Crimea---
    The strategy on Ukraine is pretty clear. Economic isolation of Russia in partnership with the EU. Rather you agree with that is another issue. However, what we are doing is clear.

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