Ivory Coast

[Stan]

I thought this might be of interest.
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish...t-Gbagbo.shtml

OK, I'll bite !

Wish the link text was a little larger - hard to read.

Are the African Leaders and other powerful Africans really, truly, members of the French Masons ? Or, similar to what I witnessed and was later told, these memberships are but token gestures to keep the peace if you will ?

The Rotary Club and Lions Club among others were constantly complaining to the Ambassadors and American Chamber of Commerce over providing symbolic and free of charge memberships to African leaders and other powerful interest group leaders.

This seems more of a right of passage than true participating membership. Although, and in keeping with the typical African business savy, they still manage to squander funds that purportedly end up supporting some political office. While that may certainly be true of real Masons around the world, they have yet to come face-to-face with Africa and her leaders.

I personally wouldn't believe anything an African banker told me... Especially not over cocktails and dinner with US diplomats

[M-A Lagrange]

OK, I'll bite !

Wish the link text was a little larger - hard to read.

Are the African Leaders and other powerful Africans really, truly, members of the French Masons ? Or, similar to what I witnessed and was later told, these memberships are but token gestures to keep the peace if you will ?

Ok, i did try and I don't bite it! Could not even go to the end of the text.

Yes ENA (Ecole Nationale d'Administration) and Polytechnique are among the 5 most prestigious private schools in France but it just does not work as they describe it.
By the way the aim of ENA is to educate and train high level civil servants! most of the politicians and diplomats... in France went there. No secret neither conspiracy.
Polytechnique was created to train officers... We also have Ecole des Mines
which was made to train high level civil servants by Louis 13... And Central with many nobel prices... By the way, if you graduate those schools, until recently, you were automatically an officer for the reserve. That was a post WW1 law! But shhhhhhh

Most of the African families in Francophone Africa send their children to be educated in France. Yes, so what? They all end up in a secret society?
I have a secret, some African president did serve in the French Army and the French Army is training, in secret, their "special forces"...

But if we want to talk about the Mason role in this part of Africa, let's talk about Liberia! That's more interresting, historically documented and actually true.

Coming back to Ivory Coast, it seems that US tried to give Bagbo an opportunity to get asylum in Atlanta.

[Stan]

Coming back to Ivory Coast, it seems that US tried to give Bagbo an opportunity to get asylum in Atlanta.

Not on my tax dollars

It is now more evident why he refused to speak with president Obama, if all we could offer was life in Georgia

[JMA]

Now here is a yank who seems to have learned something during his time in Africa.

US envoy cautions against power sharing in Ivory Coast

``Because what power sharing does is that it enables a big man who has lost an election to remain in power, and from that perspective this is a particularly sensitive time in Africa.

``The spread of power sharing may well tempt those who lose those elections to try to either somehow hang onto power or gain power or (even) some options of power.

``Power sharing is undemocratic,’’

Simple and self evident... but not to Washington, Paris and London it seems.

[Stan]

Now here is a yank who seems to have learned something during his time in Africa.

US envoy cautions against power sharing in Ivory Coast

Simple and self evident... but not to Washington, Paris and London it seems.

Hey JMA,
Actually that yank you're referring to has a lot of (recent) history, and not that great a history, both at home and especially abroad.

Limited understanding

“appears to take delight in inciting instability in Nigeria with his entire thesis based on a worst case scenario and seeming relish in willing it to occur.

Former US Ambassador advocates Military Rule for Nigeria

that military intervention could indeed be a “positive” for the country.

John Campbell Is Wrong On Nigeria Again

if Mr. Campbell’s primary motive was centered around helping Nigeria avert chaos, he would have sent his concerns along with appropriate recommendations to the Nigerian authorities. In a situation where the Nigerian authorities ignore him, he could have privately made same recommendations to the US State department to address his Nigerian concerns.

Wikileaks anyone

However, he might actually entertain your "3 Cruise Missile theory"

Regards, Stan

[JMA]

Hey JMA,
Actually that yank you're referring to has a lot of (recent) history, and not that great a history, both at home and especially abroad.

Hi Stan, Not to detract from how on the button I believe he is with regard to Ivory Coast I note that his predictions for Nigeria (contained in a book) are what has upset some Nigerians.

Upsetting the Nigerian Foreign Minister and a Nigerian blogger into critical responses (to his ideas) is hardly evidence of wholesale condemnation of what he writes/predicts.

Consider that Nigeria with its North/South Muslim/Christian divide is in reality just a larger version of Ivory Coast with the larger potential for calamity.

However, he might actually entertain your "3 Cruise Missile theory"

Well the body count is at 210 and all we are getting is talk, talk, talk (and some behind the scenes pressure). Lets wait and see.

[davidbfpo]

Within a BBC report, which refers to;

UN peacekeepers in Ivory Coast are sending a request to the Security Council for 1,000 to 2,000 more troops amid the continuing political crisis.

This gem, which I've not seen reported before:

Foreign Minister Alcide Djedje said The Ivorian army feels it cannot tolerate that 300 heavily armed soldiers from the former rebellion should be in the hotel. If the soldiers go, the blockade will be lifted...The north of the country is controlled by the New Forces, the former rebel movement that supports Mr Ouattara.

I'd only seen reports that the UN were providing security.

Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12123607

[Stan]

Upsetting the Nigerian Foreign Minister and a Nigerian blogger into critical responses (to his ideas) is hardly evidence of wholesale condemnation of what he writes/predicts.

Consider that Nigeria with its North/South Muslim/Christian divide is in reality just a larger version of Ivory Coast with the larger potential for calamity.

Hey JMA,
Agreed, and I did provide some weak links to support my theories regarding our Administrations' amateur Africanists

However, a tour or two and later a self-proclaimed expert on the region worries me; be it military and/or civilian. They are flattering themselves at best and simultaneously showing our inept ability to comprehend African politics.

Too many from my days and second guessing your African political opponents with ca 1970s studies can only lead us to an ineffective policy for engagements in the most important Francophone country in the region.

The US might have had the last word with Charles Taylor, but we don't have a hope or prayer here. IMO the current administration still doesn't get the internal dynamics of the Ivory Coast and West Africa.

Regards, Stan