What translation of Clausewitz would y'all recommend?
I'm putting some of my beer money away towards buying more books.
v/r
Mike
On a side note...
What translation of Clausewitz would y'all recommend?
I'm putting some of my beer money away towards buying more books
v/r
Mike
The Howard/Paret translation (1976/1984), hands down.
Thanks Jeremy. BTW, my brain is churned to by your last essay. Keep on keeping onOriginally Posted by kotkinjs1
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I wouldn't go and buy Clausewitz. Go and buy either the books I listed here.
They are commentaries on Clausewitz and you'll get far more out of them - Especially Smith, than wading through it yourself. - then go and buy the Howard and Paret edition of CvC!
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
I'd also piggyback w/ Mr Owen; Colin Gray is one of the best interpretations of CvC for modern usage.
Concur. Colin Gray is the about the best there is for applying Clausewitz in the real world and he also has excellent insights into the limits of Clausewitz and how and why some of the perceived limits are relevant and why some are not.
See here. for the "simple" version.
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
Gents,
Glad we have so many CvC fans out there...I have the same impression that the author has never read CvC save a few bumper sticker phrases which misses the point entirely of delving into his work.
"But the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet withstanding, go out to meet it."
-Thucydides
I have three different translations (don't ask). I learned from reading one (Howard and Paret, I think), skimming the other two, and reading commentary, that the quality of translation significantly determines what one gets out of studying CvC. e.g. Translating "vernichten" as "destruction" rather than "negation" leads to a lot of misunderstanding of what CvC was trying to convey.
John Wolfsberger, Jr.
An unruffled person with some useful skills.
Concur, but he does go on to explain explicitly what he means later in the book, - but yes, this is why Gray, Heuser and Smith are so useful.
Good point all the same.
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
Translations and interpretations are part of what makes St. Carl so enduring and good for generating discussion/learning. For me his phrase "The Aim Is To Disarm The Enemy" as the ultimate goal could be interpreted many ways besides the use of violence.
today:
vernichten = to annihilate
zerstören = to destroy
negieren = to negate
1830's meanings may have differed.
"vernichten" has "total" almost built in. Something that was "vernichtet" is 100% gone. "zerstören" can also be applied to parts instead of only the whole thing. "negieren" is close to "to neutralize", doesn't require any damage - it is usually used as "to say no".
I do no think one should waste too many bits to comment this "notional construct". Reading things before constructing some sort of premeditated rambling usually helps. We have already insightful discussions about CvC on this board.
Firn
What do you think of On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War by Harry Summers?
I confess to never having read it. I have 27m of book shelf in my office, with 2m empty, so I guess I should!
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
You could also try the following website for an English/German side by side comparision of Vom Krieg run by Clausewitz scholar Christopher Bassford which uses the J. J. Graham version (which my old Professors claimed was stylistically closer to Clausewitz). Nonetheless, you could use it as a rossetta stone against which to judge the Paret/Howard Version which has its own problems.What translation of Clausewitz would y'all recommend?
I'm putting some of my beer money away towards buying more books
v/r
Mike
http://clausewitz.com/CompareFrameSource1.htm
Last edited by Tukhachevskii; 02-24-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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