Initial Officer Selection

[Fuchs]

Hmm, let me explain the German army way as I learnt it.

An anglophone scholar (forgot who - either Gudmundsson or v.Creveld) once wrote about it that for Germans (in WW2), battle was the source of discipline itself. He came close.


The German keyword here is Gefechtsdisziplin - combat discipline.
It's the compound of obedience with thinking and comradeship.
A (small9 unit cannot withstand the stress of battle without discipline, thus discipline needs to become natural for army soldiers. It needs to be trained with discipline in little everyday affairs, but the superiors should always remember that it's combat, not the everyday affair that warrants this effort!

This is of utmost importance, for exaggerations that do not pursue the goal of robustness under combat stress will stifle the "thinking" part that's of great importance for actual performance in battle (and for developing leaders).


As a consequence, it's quite unimportant whether all soldiers wear the sleeves up, down or whether they mix it. They may march in lock-step or not.
All that counts is that superiors used enough discipline standards to instil and maintain discipline. Discipline is a skill that need training and maintenance, it is not a performance.

[JMA]

Just a note to say I will be travelling for the next week or so. Will look in while on the road.

[Ken White]

As a consequence, it's quite unimportant whether all soldiers wear the sleeves up, down or whether they mix it. They may march in lock-step or not. All that counts is that superiors used enough discipline standards to instil and maintain discipline. Discipline is a skill that need training and maintenance, it is not a performance.

To engrave this on a large plaque, have copies made and posted at the entrance to the US Army Sergeant Majors Academy and all the various Staff and War colleges.

Probably need one at each entrance to the Pentagon as well.

Certainly need one on E Ring...

Hmm. Every Division and BCT headquarters...

[selil]

To engrave this on a large plaque, have copies made and posted at the entrance to the US Army Sergeant Majors Academy and all the various Staff and War colleges.

Probably need one at each entrance to the Pentagon as well.

Certainly need one on E Ring...

Hmm. Every Division and BCT headquarters...

If you make the plaque I'll hang it in my office at NDU

[Ken White]

If you make the plaque I'll hang it in my office at NDU

It'll take a bit -- not as quick as I used to be and minor busy right now. PM me a Snail Mail Address in the next week or so...

[Bill Moore]

Bravo! Although I suspect we have slim hopes of thining the ranks of the dumbest people in the world who focus on what type of socks your wearing, or if your sleeve is turned, or your boot laces aren't left over right, etc. We used to have a different breed of Sergeant Major, one that both the enlisted and officers deeply respected. Uniform violations in garrison weren't tolerated, but few were focused on non-sense in the field, they were focused on training, and in combat on effectiveness. Now we're paying them big money to be fashion police.

Obviously our form of discipline didn't work for the PLT PBS Frontline did a special on last night. It was a case study on the most undisciplined soldiers I ever recall seeing. I suspect the senior NCOs kept them in the right uniform (fashion police patrols), but were obviously missing on combat patrols where discipline was really needed.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/woundedplatoon/

I do not lack sympathy for those with PTSD, and while the documentary attempts to make all these cases out to be PTSD they're not. Several members of this platoon had criminal records and a long history of discipline issues before going to combat, where they claim to have shot civilians for fun, they had one dumb kid trying to hug an Iraqi women, etc. Hard for me to believe the Army allowed a unit like this to exist, much less deploy, and worse deploy in combat with no adult supervision. No wonder so many Iraqis hate us.

[Ken White]

Obviously our form of discipline didn't work for the PLT PBS Frontline did a special on last night. It was a case study on the most undisciplined soldiers I ever recall seeing. I suspect the senior NCOs kept them in the right uniform (fashion police patrols), but were obviously missing on combat patrols where discipline was really needed.

I suspect you're right. I saw little evidence of any real NCO involvement in what those kids did at any point. I also noticed there were incidents of unaimed pray and spray firing and just general poor tactical competence.

We recruit but do not select. We fill out counseling sheets but do not fire due to lack of competence. We train lethality and appearance well -- discipline and common sense not at all...

I do not lack sympathy for those with PTSD, and while the documentary attempts to make all these cases out to be PTSD they're not. Several members of this platoon had criminal records and a long history of discipline issues before going to combat, where they claim to have shot civilians for fun, they had one dumb kid trying to hug an Iraqi women, etc. Hard for me to believe the Army allowed a unit like this to exist, much less deploy, and worse deploy in combat with no adult supervision. No wonder so many Iraqis hate us.

Yep. I didn't see much PTSD -- just a bunch of kids with no control just as occurred at Abu Gharaib and dozens (probably hundreds) of other times. The NCO Corps has has lost the bubble, I think...

Of course, at their behest, we do now have the most atrocious set of uniforms ever...

[ganulv]

A recent post at the On Violence blog asserts that

We [in the U.S. Army] can’t become better leaders until we figure out that we are managers. Yes, management is a dirty word, but we ignored it and now most officers/senior NCOs/warrant officers can’t manage their time or communications–at the least, few do it nearly as well as they should.

Does anyone energetically second or strenuously object to the above?