SMALL WARS COUNCIL
Go Back   Small Wars Council > Conflicts -- Current & Future > Operation Iraqi Freedom > The Information War

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2007   #1
SWJED
Small Wars Journal
 
SWJED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 3,988
Default Why is Egypt Airing Insurgent TV from Iraq?

Why is Egypt Airing Insurgent TV from Iraq? - Christian Science Monitor.

Quote:
Al Zawraa television station, the face of Iraq's Sunni insurgency, shows roadside bombs blowing up American tanks, dead and bloody Iraqi children, and insurgent snipers taking aim and firing.

And all this blatant anti-Americanism is broadcasting 24/7 on an Egyptian government-controlled satellite provider from one of Washington's closest allies. Even though Iraq and the U.S. have asked Egypt to pull the plug, the station remains on the air...
SWJED is offline  
Old 02-28-2007   #2
Jedburgh
Council Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,097
Default

BBC, 26 Feb 07: Egypt Stops Pro-Militant Iraq TV
Quote:
Egypt has stopped the transmission of a private Iraqi TV station which glorifies the Sunni insurgency in Iraq.

The United States has privately asked the Egyptian authorities to stop al-Zawraa which is carried on Nilesat - a government-owned TV satellite.

Al-Zawraa broadcasts from a secret location. Its owner is a former Iraqi MP who now lives in Syria...
Jedburgh is offline  
Old 05-24-2007   #3
Jedburgh
Council Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,097
Default

It's still here. BBC, 10 May 07: Iraq "Jihad TV" Mocks Coalition
Quote:
...Al-Zawraa TV, which is known for airing videos of attacks by insurgent groups on US forces, recently started airing the programme as part of the channel's staple output of insurgent clips, patriotic songs urging jihad, or holy war, against "occupier forces", and documentary films often of a pro-Sunni, anti-Shia and anti-US slant.

The programme, purportedly produced by the Global Islamic Media Front (GIMF), is a pastiche of the style of hidden camera TV shows popular in the US, editing together insurgent-shot clips of attacks on coalition troops complete with a laughter track, sound effects and mocking English-language captions....
Jedburgh is offline  
Old 05-31-2007   #4
tequila
Council Member
 
tequila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,665
Default

U.S., Saudis at odds over TV station - LATIMES, 31 May. Glimmers of a bigger picture --- Saudi aid is mentioned in fomenting the split between al-Qaeda in Iraq and Sunni tribes. I have a feeling that Saudi funds have probably been critical in helping movements like the Anbar Salvation Council to cohere and survive.

Quote:
U.S. and Iraqi troops chased Al Zawraa television's staff out of Iraq last year, and this year Washington pressured the Egyptians and Europeans to stop bouncing the station's signal from their satellites. But despite pleas from Washington, the Saudi government has declined to use its influence as a major stakeholder in the satellite company Arabsat to stop the transmissions, U.S. officials say.

...

The station — sometimes called "Muj TV," a shorthand for mujahedin — was launched in 2005 by Mishaan Jaburi, a former member of Iraq's parliament. Jaburi fled to Syria late last year amid charges that he had embezzled millions of dollars from the Iraqi government.

...

The Saudis have an additional reason to support the station: Al Zawraa shares the Saudi goal of persuading Iraq's Sunni Arabs to turn against Al Qaeda.

The Islamic Army in Iraq, the largest Sunni Muslim insurgency group and the one Al Zawraa speaks for, had been aligned with the group Al Qaeda in Iraq. But this year the two organizations split, and Al Zawraa began accusing Al Qaeda of attacking members of the Islamic Army in Iraq, failing to protect Iraqi civilians and provoking fights with foreign countries that could lead to attacks on Iraq.
...

The U.S. official said there was a range of opinion about the Saudis within the Bush administration and that many officials found their actions "annoying or irritating." Nonetheless, he said, many also believed that "they've been more helpful than not."

One of the Saudis' most important contributions, the U.S. official said, has been to work with other Sunni regimes on driving a wedge between Iraq's Sunnis and Al Qaeda.

The U.S. official also said the Saudis were effectively competing against the Iranians in the uniquely Mideastern arena of "personalities, money and byzantine backroom deals."

"They're skilled at it; we're clumsy," he said ...

Last edited by tequila; 05-31-2007 at 08:15 AM.
tequila is offline  
Old 10-23-2007   #5
ali_ababa
Council Member
 
ali_ababa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 32
Default

I'm not surprised with Egypt. A lot of terrorists that come to Iraq for suicide missions are from Egypt and Saudi Arabia - it's okay for them to mass murder civilians and coalition forces.

I wish America would put more pressure on the egyptian government rather than announce a $20 billion aid package for them.

After all Hosni Mubarak declared hanging Saddam made him a 'martyr'.
Mubarak and Saddam were good friends secretly.

Last edited by ali_ababa; 10-23-2007 at 11:15 PM.
ali_ababa is offline  
Old 10-01-2008   #6
NicholasChandler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: hawaii
Posts: 1
Default Why is Egypt Airing Insurgent TV from Iraq?

Egypt has stopped the transmission of a private Iraqi TV station which glorifies the Sunni insurgency in Iraq.
NicholasChandler is offline  
Old 10-01-2008   #7
sullygoarmy
Council Member
 
sullygoarmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Stewart
Posts: 224
Default

Nice since they receive more of our foreign aid dollars than any other country out there (other than Israel).
__________________
"But the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet withstanding, go out to meet it."

-Thucydides
sullygoarmy is offline  
Old 10-02-2008   #8
SWJED
Small Wars Journal
 
SWJED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 3,988
Default

Interesting that this is posted here today. While slogging along the I-95 parking lot into DC today I was listening to Woodward's new book. Supposedly Mubarak was plotting through Sunni insurgents to oust Maliki during the early Surge until he got a firm slap from the US.
__________________
Small Wars Journal
SWJED is offline  
Old 02-02-2009   #9
politicsbyothermeans
Council Member
 
politicsbyothermeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 18
Default

Was the slap firm enough?

The number of bad guys we found with traceable Egyptian backgrounds, even if only while in transit to the OE, was and is entirely unacceptable.
politicsbyothermeans is offline  
Old 02-02-2009   #10
Van
Council Member
 
Van's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i
Posts: 414
Default

Quote:
Al-Zawraa TV, which is known for airing videos of attacks by insurgent groups on US forces
Playing the Devil's Advocate:
So now the U.S. is about censorship?

We claim we want to bring democracy and Western liberties to other countries but then we actively try to suppress them when they are exercised?

Aren't rights for everyone, not just people we like?

If Cuba and Russia, or even Cuba and Canada petitioned the U.S. to stop the Radio Marti broadcasts, would we comply or tell them to put it were the sun shineth not?

Personally, I think taking out their transmitters and servers (either physical destruction or hacking) would be one of the extremely few acceptable uses of covert (as opposed to clandestine) action.
Van is offline  
Old 02-03-2009   #11
politicsbyothermeans
Council Member
 
politicsbyothermeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 18
Default

Van, agree with you personally and not sure what to say about the advocacy position save that with rights come responsibility. While I see your point, after a few tours dealing with those who were incited to violence, martyrdom and general terrorist tomfoolery by the stations in question, I would be more than happy to see them finding sudden difficulties transmitting due either to raging fires in the general vicinity or some sort of unordered software retrogrades.
__________________
In war there is no prize for the runner-up.
politicsbyothermeans is offline  
Old 02-03-2009   #12
Bob's World
Council Member
 
Bob's World's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,703
Default

Some thoughts for you all to consider from someone who was embedded with the Egyptian Army during the first Gulf War:

1. Egypt and Saudi Arabia have a lot in common in that the populaces of both states suffer under dictatorships that are supported in power largely by the U.S in exchange for support that we ask of those governments.

2. Most foreign fighters (some 40%) in Iraq are indeed Saudi, and I would expect a large number to come from Eqypt as well, though I am not aware of their open source percentage. Some 20% each come from Lybia and Algeria.

3. The Saudi's fear any growth of Shia power in particular and Iranian power in general and often play the U.S. has a hedge to protect them from this. This is due largely to the heavily oppressed Shia minority in NE Saudi Arabia that is the most motivated dissident group in Saudi Arabia, though there is a large Sunni dissidence as well.

4. This thread started off by stating how "Egypt" was running insurgent supporting information on TV, I suspect that "Egypt" i.e., the state of Egypt, was not running this at all, and the reason this was running was becuase it is very popular with a suppressed Egyptian populace.

5. The Saudi and Egyptian populaces fully recognize that they have no real hope of resolving their issues of poor governance at home until they can break the support of the U.S. in the region in general, and to their governments in particular. This is a critical point to understand. Young Saudi and Egyptian men see phase one to successful nationalist insurgency at home to be this breaking of U.S. support to two governments that have very little in common with the principles that the U.S. holds so dear.

6. When you see that the Saudi government is "cracking down on terrorsts" at home, you would be wise to consider that the people they are cracking down on are Saudi citizens who are rising up in a quest for self-determined governance, and that this tremendous "help" by our Saudi allies most likely translates to their populace as all the more why reason they must work harder to break U.S. support to this government.

7. Some of these Saudis follow an extreme wahabi brand of Islam, but most are moderates who want something even more extreme in this region of the world: self-determined democracy.


My point in all of this is that this often gets colored in just one way as it is presented to the American populace. We see ourselves as "the good guys" and therefore our allies are on the "good guy" team too. We are good guys, but as our leadership has stated, we are addicted to oil, and addicts make bad decisions. Just keep an open mind, and try to see these things though the perspectives of others as well.

To apply the concepts that I presented a few months ago in the paper on "Populace-Centric Engagement" the course I would offer is that we need to be much more tuned in to the needs, will and requirements of populaces like those of Egypt and Saudi Arabia; and take a much firmer line with their governments, using a full bag of carrots and sticks to put more effort to getting them to evolve their governments in ways that give their entire populaces more voice, and less effort on turning a blind eye to that in order to gain their support for GWOT related issues, or out of fear that they would somehow stop selling us oil.

Americans all wish that the Middle East would change how it views us. I suggest that the critical first step is changing how we view them. The Cold War lens we view them through gets a little cloudier every day.
__________________
Robert C. Jones
Intellectus Supra Scientia
(Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

"The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

Last edited by Bob's World; 02-03-2009 at 02:17 PM.
Bob's World is offline  
Old 02-03-2009   #13
CR6
Council Member
 
CR6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 181
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post

My point in all of this is that this often gets colored in just one way as it is presented to the American populace. We see ourselves as "the good guys" and therefore our allies are on the "good guy" team too. We are good guys, but as our leadership has stated, we are addicted to oil, and addicts make bad decisions. Just keep an open mind, and try to see these things though the perspectives of others as well.


Americans all wish that the Middle East would change how it views us. I suggest that the critical first step is changing how we view them. The Cold War lens we view them through gets a little cloudier every day.
As my ten year old boy said over breakfast this morning Sir, "Dad, sometimes bad guys think the good guys are evil don't they?"
__________________
"Law cannot limit what physics makes possible." Humanitarian Apsects of Airpower (papers of Frederick L. Anderson, Hoover Institution, Stanford University)
CR6 is offline  
Old 02-03-2009   #14
invictus0972
Council Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ft Riley , KS
Posts: 42
Default

I wonder if we should acknowledge Hamas, which was democratically elected by the Palestinian people. Also, Hamas spends 90% of its budget on badly needed social welfare programs. We do not acknowledge them because they are considered a terrorist organization. I agree with Bob's assessment that it is inappropriate to talk of these issues in terms of "good" and "bad"; rather, we should merely consider our strategic interests.
invictus0972 is offline  
Old 02-03-2009   #15
politicsbyothermeans
Council Member
 
politicsbyothermeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 18
Default

Not to muddy the issue but, OMS and much of the Sadrist infrastructure is geared towards easing the suffering of the downtrodden. Just because some, or even most, of your efforts go towards "good" doesn't mean that some of your folks don't need to wake up dead.
__________________
In war there is no prize for the runner-up.
politicsbyothermeans is offline  
Old 02-04-2009   #16
Rex Brynen
Council Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus0972 View Post
I wonder if we should acknowledge Hamas, which was democratically elected by the Palestinian people. Also, Hamas spends 90% of its budget on badly needed social welfare programs. We do not acknowledge them because they are considered a terrorist organization. I agree with Bob's assessment that it is inappropriate to talk of these issues in terms of "good" and "bad"; rather, we should merely consider our strategic interests.
I doubt very much that Hamas spends 90% of its budget on social problems--or, for that matter that we even know what its budget is.
__________________
They mostly come at night. Mostly.
Rex Brynen is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9. ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Registered Users are solely responsible for their messages.
Operated by, and site design 2005-2009, Small Wars Foundation