Pakistani internal security (catch all)

[davidbfpo]

A short BBC report on policing in Pakistan's biggest city, based on a World Service programme. A very thin "blue line" and as for the courts, incredible:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30115827

Starts with:

Pakistan's police are on the front line battling the Taliban. Not just in the remote north of the country, near the border with Afghanistan, but in Karachi, the country's economic and cultural heart.

He is open about the use of what he calls "arm twisting". He admits waterboarding is sometimes used, and I spot a taser gun in his hand although I do not witness him using it...

It can often take 10 years or more for a case to go through the courts.

Nothing startling if you know about policing there, but a good illustration of how Pakistan works, plus comments from a suspected Taliban member.

[Ulenspiegel]

A short BBC report on policing in Pakistan's biggest city, based on a World Service programme. A very thin "blue line" and as for the courts, incredible:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30115827

Starts with:

Nothing startling if you know about policing there, but a good illustration of how Pakistan works, plus comments from a suspected Taliban member.

From a Pakistani PhD student who grew up in the Swat Valley and did his university time in Karachi: It is quite common that in some neighborhoods family re-unions gone wrong or religious disputes cause dozens of dead and injured people. Ten dead people per night are considered BAU according to him.

He was realy surprised that an Austrian city of 300.000 can be run without obvious police presence and almost could not believe that this city has only 6 homicide victims per year.

[Firn]

Perhaps just a quick comparision with the US LE deaths:

There are more than 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers now serving in the United States, which is the highest figure ever. About 12 percent of those are female.

Roughly 150 per year, 1 out of 6000. It is difficult to break down the numbers, but certainly accidents played a big role with fifty percent not being that wide off. Suicides are surprisingly close to the sum of all other causes of death, if one can believe various sources. Actually in 2012 they were a bigger cause of death the all those suffered during duty.*

2012 Fatalities

In 2012, traffic incidents were the leading cause of officer fatalities, as they have been for 14 of the last 15 years.

But at the same time, 2012 had the lowest number of law enforcement officers to die in traffic-related incidents since 1991 (with 43 fatalities).

If we take 300 deaths per year from a 15,000 strong force 1 out of 50 from the Karachi LE doesn't make it.

BTW: I tried to find European figures, but there only seem to be national ones. In any case forty years ago after a sensational 'Bild' report the Spiegel quoted:

Denn während für 1974 (bezogen auf je 100 000 Vollbeschäftigte) die Berufsgenossenschaft Seefahrt 157 Todesfälle meldete, die der Binnenschiffer 127, der Bergbau 103 und der Tiefbau 47, verzeichnete die Polizeistatistik mit 17,8 einen Wert, der nur um 0,1 über dem des Jahres 1965 lag. Im Vergleich mit dem Risiko anderer Professionen. folgern die Soziologen, "liegt das der Vollzugsbeamten auf einem unteren Rangplatz", vor allem: Es ist in letzter Zeit kaum nennenswert gestiegen.

One profession suffered almost ten times the deaths per capita. Of course one should have used a couple of years and only big groups to, but it is fair to say that other occupations are in the Western world considerably more life-threatening then being a police officer. For an European officer wearing a seat belt might be more important then using body armour...

Things are obviously quite different in Karachi.

*Some details remain unclear.

[davidbfpo]

From Zoha Waseem's Twitter (Kings War Studies PhD student):

In 2014 at least 1816 civilians and at least 140 police officers were killed in Karachi due to crime and terrorism-related violence.

[Bill Moore]

From Zoha Waseem's Twitter (Kings War Studies PhD student):

I don't trust the numbers I'm providing, but they are probably approximate and Karachi seems relatively safe to many cities in America.

http://www.asecurelife.com/most-dang...-in-the-world/

The lists vary from place to place, but here is an average of what the top ten most dangerous cities consist of.
1.San Pedro Sula, Honduras
2.Ciudad Jaurez, Mexico
3.Acapulco, Mexico
4.Caracas, Venezuela
5.Distrito Central, Honduras
6.Maceio, Brazil
7.Baghdad, Iraq
8.Sana’a, Yemen
9.Cape Town, South Africa
10.Karachi, Pakistan

The following list doesn't even list Karachi in the top 50 (doesn't mean its right):

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-m...d-2014-11?op=1

Murder is more common in Latin America than in any other part of the world.

Thirty-four of the 50 worst cities were located in the region, including repeat murder capital of the world — San Pedro Sula, Honduras — which saw 187 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2013 and is getting steadily worse. A full one-third of global homicides occur in Latin America even though the region has just 8% of the world's population, according to United Nations data.

And we're worried about Islamists?

[davidbfpo]

From the Dawn paper:

According to official figures, 701 suspects were killed in ‘encounters’ with police and 224 were gunned down in shootouts with the paramilitary Rangers while 143 personnel of police and 17 of Rangers were killed in targeted attacks in the metropolis, said spokespersons for police and Rangers.

The report has more:http://www.dawn.com/news/1154281

Bill,

I wonder if those cities you listed above have similar figures for both civilian and state deaths.