The Indian role in Afghanistan (new title)

[SWJED]

12 June The Australian - Indian Troops to Fight Taliban by Bruce Loudon.

India is doubling its deployment of highly trained commandos to combat the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan.

The commandos, from the crack Indo-Tibetan Border Police force that specialises in high-altitude operations in the Himalayas, are being sent to guard about 300 Indian road builders working on the 218km Zaranj-Delaram highway, which will connect Afghanistan's second city, Kandahar, with the Iranian border.

The highway, part of an Indian aid project, traverses the heart of the Taliban badlands and engineers working on the project have been the target of frequent attacks.

The new deployment meant almost 400 commandos would be in the area to combat Taliban attempts to halt construction of the highway, Indian news agency PTI reported...

[davidbfpo]

I do not recall much reporting on the Indian involvement in Afghanistan, so apologies if 'old news'.

When the Taliban government dominated Afghanistan the Northern Alliance, led by General Dostum, there was a small Indian military advisory team, much to the annoyance of the Pakistanis. Less certain now, the advisers provided artillery expertise and assisted the American intervention. After Kabul fell the Indian advisers went low profile.

So Indian has para-military police in Western Afghanistan, I wonder how ISAF manages that relationship?

davidbfpo

[Ray]

India had offered troops when the operations had begun, but this was not taken on so as to not upset the Pakistanis, from whom a greater cooperation was required since the terrorists were launching from the safety and bases in Pakistan.

The Indo Tibetan Border Police are para military personnel. They are being sent to guard the General Reserve Engineer Force (India) that is building the Highway in Afghanistan.

[davidbfpo]

The Indian contractors building the highway have finished, so have the Indian protectors left? Or is there another contract? I note a Chinese contractor is present somewhere and with US Army protection.

davidbfpo

[davidbfpo]

This the nearest hospitable place for this report.

Apparently Prime Minister Putin this week in a statement after a new arms deal with India commented that Russia shares India's concerns over the Taliban in Afghanistan.

After a search I did find this on an arms & nuclear power deal: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8561365.stm and a suggestion that they did share concerns: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ow/5673201.cms

How the Afghan state will react to such 'shared concerns' is not clear, especially as the Pakistani reaction maybe to label this as strategic encirclement and exert their own response. I'm puzzled that Russia even considers the Afghan peoples will accept their help - assuming 'concern' becomes a reality.

[davidbfpo]

Cross reference added as this subject IMHO deserves it, to a SWJ Blog notice:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=10787

[Brian Hanley]

http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chap...m-India-1.aspx

Conquering Afghanistan- What The West Can Learn From India
By Rakesh Krishnan Simha , [ rakeshmail@gmail.com]

Chapter : 1
The western media says no country has ever conquered Afghanistan, but the fact they conveniently forget is that not too long ago the Indians conquered and ruled Afghanistan, an episode of history that is carved into the recesses of the Afghan mind.


... But first a flashback to the past. Afghanistan had always been a part of India; it was called Gandhar, from which the modern Kandahar originates. It was a vibrant ancient Indian province that gave the world excellent art, architecture, literature and scientific knowledge. After Alexander’s ill-fated invasion in the 4th century BC, it became even more eclectic – a melting pot of Indian and Greek cultures, a world far removed from today’s Taliban infested badlands.

It was an Indian province until 1735 when Nadir Shah of Iran emboldened by the weakness of India's latter Mughals ransacked Delhi. ...

... Nadir Shah’s successor Ahmad Shah Abdali had been launching repeated raids into Punjab and Delhi. To check this Ranjit Singh decided to build a modern and powerful army with the employment of Frenchmen, Italians, Greeks, Russians, Germans and Austrians. In fact, two of the foreign officers who entered the maharaja’s service, Ventura and Allard, had served under Napoleon. Says historian Shiv Kumar Gupta: “All these officers were basically engaged by Ranjit Singh for modernization of his troops. He never put them in supreme command.”

After conquering Multan in 1818 and Kashmir in 1819, Ranjit Singh led his legions across the Indus and took Dera Ghazi Khan in 1820 and Dera Ismail Khan in 1821. Alarmed, the Afghans called for a jehad under the leadership of Azim Khan Burkazi, the ruler of Kabul. A big Afghan army collected on the bank of the Kabul river at Naushehra, but Ranjit Singh won a decisive victory and the Afghans were dispersed in 1823. Peshawar was subdued in 1834.

[omarali50]

I will be the first to say that the unconquerable Afghanistan myth is a myth. Afghanistan has been conquered MANY times, usually by conquerors passing through on their way to better real estate. But this particular article is really silly and very very superficial. Ancient Afghanistan was on the periphery of Ancient India and if we are talking about the Mahabharata, we are in the realm of myth, not in the realm of proper historiography. (again, I am a fan of the Mahabharat and highly recommend the simplified short English version by RK Narayan, but lets not get carried away).
In "historical times", Afghanistan has more often been the source of people who raided or even conquered the Indian plains and not the other way round (which, to my mind, is neither here not there as far as present times are concerned as the whole notion of genetically unconquerable and conquerable people is false, so I am not reading too much into that either).
For example, the writer states that until 1735, Afghanistan was an Indian province. Since the ruling dynasty in India (the Moghuls) advertised themselves first and foremost as "Taimuris" (descendants of Tamerlane) and were from central asia and ruled Afghanistan BEFORE they ruled India, and their predecessors (the Lodhis) were actually pathans who had moved into India as part of conquering Afghan armies, this is a bit too clever an assertion.
Ranjit Singh did indeed capture what is now the Pakistani part of traditional Pathan lands (which is why those parts are IN Pakistan...they became British when the British defeated Ranjit Singh's incompetent successors) but that is hardly the same thing as conquering Afghanistan. A case can be made that he COULD have taken Kabul if he wanted, but what exactly does that prove? that a superior military led by a superior leader can defeat a weaker nation?
Ranjit Singh's successful subjugation of his Pathan subjects does tell us that there is nothing inherently unconquerable about these tribes (or any other tribes). Is that news?
btw, Hari Singh Malwa conquered Hazara in what is now Pakistan's Hazara division, which has nothing to do with the Afghan Hazarajat. That whole paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

[Steve the Planner]

Omarali is on point.

If you follow all the threads, however, Afghanistan has been a relatively well-flipped pawn since the dawn of civilization.

Reading history from the British Durand Line days is sure to obscure the functional human and economic geography at play.

Gwandar was NOT afghanistan, nor was it Pakistan. It was it's own functional region from Kwandar to Khandahar.

I recently read a supposedly authoritative piece wherein the author was waxing poetic on the great accomplishments of Afghanistan, with a little disclaimer that it was "in the area now known as Afghanistan." Actually, it was the area then known as Gwandar."

The below reference is a little hard to read (English as second language) but it does a good job of opening the door of possible alternative histories of India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and IRAN, and the cultures and civilizations which sprang up along the sea coast and extended inward by either river valleys or terrain.

http://www.ranajitpal.com/dream.html

India itself was, and in part, remains a hodgepodge of "Empires" which they are still internally trying to sort out into functional states.

Steve

[omarali50]

Sorry, i mis-wrote Nalwa as Malwa.
Btw, since Hari Singh is supposedly the 534th person in history who has been used by mothers to quiet their crying children, can anyone cite an actual occasion when ANY mother anywhere has used the name of any general to shut up her crying child? I am beginning to suspect this story is no more true than the legend of Santa Claus...

[Steve the Planner]

Sure. I would routinely use the name of Field Marshall Goering to frighten my daughter to sleep. Right.

Things are also said to "sell like hotcakes," but I can never recall seeing any hotcakes for sale anywhere....

The problem we have with so much of this stuff is that myths and wive's tales can start to substitute for genuine information.

I started with Iraq and Afghanistan back in about 6,000 BC. From that, it seems pretty obvious that the myth that Iraq was a made up country was just myth. It's core boundaries and the concepts of Iraq are well-established and documented---Gertrude Bell didn't make them up.

Instead, however, history suggests that if any "country" were actually made up (and badly), I would put Afghanistan at the top of the Made-Up-O-Meter, stumbling into existence in its present context by a collection of 1893 to 1950 accidents.

The Rulers of Kabul, the Rulers of Khandahar, The Rulers of the major towns along the Silk Road, go back in time, and they all had a different focus and purpose... Afghanistan goes back in decades.

Although I haven't quantified it, I would guess that most of what now constitutes Afghanistan has been under occupancy or foreign dominion more than it has been "free."

In most cases, as with Ranjit Singh, there were substantial mutual benefits that flowed from their affiliation and/or subjugation. That's when stability existed.

Steve

PS- Got any hot cakes?

[Bob's World]

http://www.realclearworld.com/articl...tan_99541.html

This is a nicely balanced discussion of the implications of a growing Indian influence in Afghanistan. I think the author does a fair job of describing the perspectives, interests and motivations of the various parties, as well as potential consequences.

Personally I see no good that can come from a US enabled growth of Indian Influence in Kabul. The Indian position that "they have no exit strategy" should be chillingly telling as to how they see the opportunities of the current situation.

Bob

[carl]

The Indians will do as they think they must in Afghanistan. We can influence them hardly or not at all.

[Dayuhan]

Personally I see no good that can come from a US enabled growth of Indian Influence in Kabul. The Indian position that "they have no exit strategy" should be chillingly telling as to how they see the opportunities of the current situation.

Like Carl, I don't see how the US is "enabling" Indian influence. The Indians will do what they want, and look after their perceived interests, without any help or enabling from us.

Their lack of an exit strategy does seem a bit of trouble... for them. If their desire to increase their influence gives the US an exit strategy, that may not altogether be a bad thing... for us. I personally think the Pakistanis would love to see the Indians mired down and draining themselves in Afghanistan, and that the Indians would be foolish to put themselves in that position, especially given the logistic complications... but what I think doesn't matter at all.

[Bob's World]

What Indians do of their own accord is of no concern of mine.

What a US desperate for allies to support us in a misconceived mission does to overcome past obstacles to a major Indian presence in Afghanistan, creating long term major problems in an effort to help cure our short-term minor problems is.

We have already disrupted the natural balance in the region in ways we will not fully appreciate for generations, if ever. To add sins to address sins is no solution.

[carl]

Oh I don't know. Lining up with a functioning though flawed democracy that will soon be the most populous country in the world and has a growing, dynamic economy and doesn't kill our people; rather than a collapsing police state with a lousy economy that takes our money and uses it to kill us, may be strategically advantageous to us in the long run.

Whatever obstacles there are to a major Indian presence in Afghanistan, the Indians will overcome on their own. They don't need us.

[Dayuhan]

Lining up with a functioning though flawed democracy that will soon be the most populous country in the world and has a growing, dynamic economy and doesn't kill our people; rather than a collapsing police state with a lousy economy that takes our money and uses it to kill us, may be strategically advantageous to us in the long run.

I don't see that we need to line up with anybody in that particular mess. We can resolve our problems with Pakistan by scaling back or removing our presence in their neighborhood: not like there's any great gain to be had for us there in the first place. If we don't like the way they spend the money we send, we should stop sending it.

Whatever obstacles there are to a major Indian presence in Afghanistan, the Indians will overcome on their own. They don't need us.

True. The Indians will do what they will do, and reap the consequences on their own. No need for us to be taking sides or trying to manipulate that situation. It will be easier (and more likely) for us to make it worse than better.

[Ray]

Mod's Note

Due to the amount of details on India's role contained here, this was copied here from another thread 'Winning in Afghanistan'.

Road building isn't state building. If you try to install, cultivate, or protect a government in another country, especially one where control of patronage is a major source of individual prosperity and power, you are going to upset people and generate opposition, no matter what you do.

I mentioned the Road building project since anyone conversant with Counter Insurgency operations would know that while it is comparatively easy to defend point targets, it is not easy to defend a widely dispersed area target like constructing a highway where the engineering assets and manpower is widely spread without fortifications. Further the construction had to be done against a timed target and so were constructed in various segments and then linked up.

That the Indian construction team did not have the protection of any Army or air assets since it was not permitted by the US, lest it upset Pakistan and yet could construct with minimal initial casualties because of Pakistani based terrorists, I think would elicit praise being remarkable.

That the attacks by the terrorist were not mounted thereafter does indicate the goodwill and rapport that the Indian team had built up with the locals.

In passing the road is not the only thing done by the Indians. And it must be remembered that India had no stake in the invasion of Afghanistan wherein they would be burdened with some obligations to set right things.

Since it appears that you are not aware India's contribution, if one goes by your posts, I take this opportunity to inform you that India has played a significant role in the reconstruction and rehabilitation of Afghanistan.

The annual assistance is over US$ 100 million and, in addition, has pledged recently an additional assistance of US$ 100 million, thus, making the total amount of our assistance over US $ 750 million. Of this, US$ 400 million have already been disbursed so far.

India has undertaken projects virtually in all parts of Afghanistan, in a wide range of sectors including hydro-electricity, power transmission lines, road construction, agriculture and industry, telecommunications, information and broadcasting, capacity development, humanitarian assistance, education and health, which have been identified by the Afghan government as priority areas for development.

All the projects are undertaken in partnership with the Government of Afghanistan (GoA), and in alignment with the Afghanistan National Development Strategy and with focus on local ownership of assets.

Major projects include: Construction of Transmission Line from Pul-e-Khumri to Kabul and a sub-station at Kabul under the North-East Power System project which will bring power from neighbouring countries to Kabul; humanitarian food assistance of 1 million tons of wheat in the form of high protein biscuits under School Feeding Programme in Afghanistan supplied through World Food Programme; construction of 218 km road from Zaranj to Delaram that will facilitate movement of goods and personnel from Afghanistan to Iranian border; reconstruction and completion of Salma Dam Power Project (42 MW) in Herat province; construction of Afghanistan’s Parliament Building; reconstruction of Indira Gandhi Institute for Child Health in Kabul in various phases including reconstruction of surgical ward/ polyclinic/ diagnostic centre; reconstruction of Habibia School; digging of 26 tube wells in north west Afghanistan; gifting of vehicles (400 buses, 200 mini-buses, 105 municipality and 285 army vehicles); setting up of 5 toilet-cum-sanitation complexes in Kabul; telephone exchanges in 11 provinces to connect them to Kabul; national TV network by providing an uplink from Kabul and downlinks in all 34 provincial capitals; rehabilitation of Amir Ghazi and Quargah Reservoir dams, solar electrification of 100 villages, etc

Skills development and capacity building has been identified as another key area of priority, expected to become the vanguard in tackling the mammoth challenge of institutional building in Afghanistan. In furtherance of this, the Government of India (GoI) has offered 500 Indian Council for Cultural Relations (ICCR) long-term university scholarships and 500 short-term Indian Technical and Economic Cooperation (ITEC) training programmes for Afghan nationals annually from 2006-07 onwards. 30 Indian civil servants are also being deputed under the GoI/GoA/UNDP Tripartite MoU for Capacity for Afghan Public Administration programme envisaged to build capacity in various Afghan Ministries. Other major skills development projects include CII project for training 3,000 Afghans in the trades of carpentry, plumbing, welding, masonry and tailoring, as well as SEWA project for technical assistance to Women’s Vocational Training Centre in Bagh-e-Zanana. Since 2002, around 2215 Afghans have trained/studied in India under the various GoI sponsored training programme. India is training the Afghan police and the army.

India is also implementing numerous community-based, small development projects in the fields of agriculture, rural development, education, health, vocational training, water and sanitation etc. These projects, with short gestation periods, have direct and visible impact on community life, and focus on local ownership and management

On the issue of patronage in Afghanistan, I daresay neither the US nor anyone is there as missionaries who are bringing civilisation to the savages! In other words, it is the first mistake - superimposing western ethics in a hurry, as if it were Instant Coffee being served!

While I am not condoning corruption, but ‘patronage’ as you see it, is a historical convention, even practised in ancient West. It is bringing gifts to the ruler! It was also prevalent with the British in India, who used to get dolis which they accept with élan. If you are conversant with British Indian history, you will recall the rationale for the impeachment of the Governor General Warren Hasting of India. Education in India over about 300 years of colonial rule inculcated British ethics and hence the custom of Mughal nazrana fell by the way and was taken to be bribes............. but then Afghanistan never had the benefit of English education and customs or ethics since they were never conquered.

Neither are they aware of the English phrase Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

[blueblood]

First of all, a large Indian military presence is highly unlikely. India had it's share of unfortunate adventures in Sri Lanka.

India is the country which is supposed to lose the most if taliban returns to power bar the Afghanistan itself. What do you think these thousands of trained jihadis will do after that? A 9 to 5 job is not my guess. It will be 1988 Kashmir redux for India. Energy and minerals security too will vanish into thin air.

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Airlines_Flight_814

If (a big if) India enters Afghanistan, then it has some advantages which Americans never had.

1) Common culture between Indians and Afghans.
2) Historically good ties and goodwill.
3) Rich experience in fighting insurgencies and as Brig. Ray mentioned a "low tech approach". In the last 23 years of fighting insurgency in Kashmir, 84mm Carl Gustav is the heaviest weapon used. Thus, minimum logistics required.
4) A different approach of dealing with locals. Not bringing the civilization to the savages. If an Afghan wants to beat his wife, let him do it.
5) Support from Iran, another stakeholder.

For the logistics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-to-Iran.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chah_Bahar#Chabahar_Port

Large Indian contingent is probably a stupid move but I think it's better than to sit on one's hands and then regret.

[Ray]

I am not conversant with the strategy or tactics adopted to take on the terrorists in Afghanistan beyond what is known from open sources.

To beat the terrorists at their game could be like what India has done in Kashmir.

Deployment on the Border to 'seal' (it can never be 100%) with a second line where there is an anti Infiltration obstacle system.

And thereafter there are troops to include para military in bases to operate against those terrorists who have infiltrated and reported to be in location by the locals.

It requires adequate troops and one wonders if the US and ISAF would commit that many troops or paramiltiary.

The advantage the US and ISAF is that they are cleared to use the air force and artillery. That would make a great difference.

One requires to defeat or contain the terrorists and send a message that it won't work before any political measures can be put in place successfully.