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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

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  1. #1
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    Below is interesting as it is probably true as the report has been verified from several Ukrainian sources.

    Interesting in that after Minsk 1 and then 2 it was often stated and especially by Russia that the Agreement was to the determent of the Ukraine and in initial reading it appears that way.

    BUT the Ukraine has elegantly fulfilled the basis of the Agreement and literally thrown it back at the Russians meaning the Russians must pull back all foreign fighters, mercenaries, volunteers, vacationers as part of the disarming process and they must submit to open and fair elections conducted using Ukrainian law ---THIS has been mentioned something Russia would never allow thus it trys continually to change Minsk 2 and or modifiy the Minsk 2 which Hahn is trying here to do.

    What the EU rep seems to have forgotten is that once the eastern region has the so called "federalization" that Putin wants WILL they continue to implement Minsk 2--IMHO NO.

    So the question begs to be asked WHO inside the EU is pushing this concept--it just does not appear out of "heaven" one day and then is carried forth--it would though fit what Germany and France have been trying to do--circumvent their own Agreement to appease Russia and give Putin a "victory" in the hopes he will then pull out.

    Talk about Munich 1938 and driven by Germany and France who should actually know better.

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/06/2...mlins-demands/

    Europe pressuring Ukraine to meet Kremlin’s demands

    2015/06/24 • News

    Article by: Serhiy Sydorenko, European Pravda, June 23, 2015

    Despite the European Union’s apparent support of Ukraine, Brussels sometimes comes up with ideas that evoke amazement among Ukrainians who wonder how it is possible to have such a wrong perception of reality.

    The only consolation (for Ukrainians) lies in the hope that a public airing of the inappropriateness of the proposals of the EU representatives will convince them to abandon what they have started. Therefore, we hope that our publication will help stop the new initiative of the European Commission, which, to put it mildly, is rather hostile to Ukraine.

    European Pravda has learned that Johannes Hahn, the commissioner for European Neighborhood Policy and Enlargement Negotiations, during his visit to Kyiv last week, tried to convince Ukrainian authorities that Kyiv needs to carry out the “last” points of the Minsk agreement and not wait for Russia and the Russian-controlled militants to carry out their portion of the agreement.

    What are they asking of Ukraine?

    The new proposal so far does not yet have the status of an “official EU requirement.” It is more likely that the EU is currently “testing” the reaction of the Ukrainian side regarding the idea of a “mild renegotiation” of the requirements of the Minsk agreement.

    But even Kyiv’s unconditionally firm response during the first round of the negotiations did not prevent the members of the European Commission from raising the issue again.

    European Pravda’s correspondent was present during a closed session where one of the highest officials of the European Commission responsible for Ukraine (we agreed not to disclose his name) suddenly announced that there were problems in Kyiv’s implementation of the Minsk Agreement.

    “Yes, we are talking about Russia’s violations of the Minsk Agreement,” he said. “But is Ukraine doing everything to comply with the Minsk requirements? Why don’t you move ahead with providing special status to the Donbas? After all, you can do that immediately and demonstrate Kyiv’s good will toward carrying out Minsk,” the official explained.

    The arguments of the Ukrainian politicians who were at the meeting that the Minsk Agreement deliberately consists of separate stages and that there is no point in carrying out the last point when Moscow is not even complying with the first one had no effect on the EU representative. He continued to insist that Ukraine needs to fulfill the Minsk agreement “in advance.”

    The Verkhovna Rada is already aware of the new EU requirement.

    “Rumors emerged last week and were later confirmed,” Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze, first deputy head of the Parliamentary Committee on Foreign Affairs, told European Pravda.

    “The Europeans are demanding that we propose a strategy for the special status of Donbas. And they want this status not to be limited to three years (as in the law about the status of certain territories) but to be made permanent,” she said.

    According to Klympush-Tsintsadze, somehow the complex approach to carrying out the Minsk-2 Agreements is being negated suddenly. “Despite the fact that the first steps have not even been carried out — the ceasefire is not respected, the heavy weaponry has not been withdrawn, our hostages have not been returned — but the EU is telling Kyiv to carry out the fifth or seventh step,” she said.

    Kyiv’s Reaction

    Multiple government sources confirmed that this idea first appeared during Hahn’s visit to Kyiv. And one of his meetings turned out to be almost completely dedicated to this idea.

    The official participants in the negotiations with Hahn refuse to comment officially, explaining that the situation is “too sensitive.”

    However, as a result of discussions “not on record” European Pravda was able to put together a scenario of the negotiations.

    “The negotiations that were held in the Verkhovna Rada were incredibly complex and emotional. Voices were raised. The Ukrainian participants considered this idea practically a betrayal on Hahn’s part. Europeans, on the other hand, tried to make the case the Ukraine itself must demonstrate greater flexibility and progress on the Minsk issue in order to remove any claims on the part of Russia,” one of the negotiators told European Pravda

    “At one point the Ukrainian representative even told the commissioner that he is advocating the same position as the Moscow representatives,” another source said. After emotional and fruitless negotiations in the Rada, Commissioner Hahn went to meet the president.

    “There the negotiations were not as emotional. The commissioner was more constructive with President Poroshenko and paid more attention to reports on the violations of the Minsk agreement by Russia,” one of the Verkhovna Rada participants reported. However, another source insisted that during Hahn’s negotiations with Poroshenko the Europeans again — perhaps in milder terms — raised the question of Ukraine “going ahead” in carrying out the Minsk requirements.

    Meanwhile, our source at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs says the situation should not be overly dramatized and that there are no “demands” on the part of the EU.

    According to the diplomat, so far Kyiv is not being asked to grant special status to the Donbas but to “discuss” the possibility of such a provision.

    “The EU wants for all the Minsk questions to be discussed in the subgroups of the Interim Contact Group in order to avoid taboos on certain topics, including this one. But this is an informal discussion, an exchange of ideas. The official dialogue will begin only after the elections with the legitimately elected representatives (of several regions of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts)” the Foreign Ministry source said.

    Instead of an epilogue

    At present it is difficult to say if this unexpected proposal by the European Commission, which was made twice in just a few days (first in Kyiv during the visit of the European commissioner and then at a closed session at the EU), will advance further.

    Much depends on how categorically this option was refused by the Ukrainian side. For now, all sources without exception say they are against any revision of the Minsk agreements even a “modest revision.”

    “My conversations indicate that at the EU they sometimes act as though they want to achieve elections in the Donbas without thinking too much about how to conduct them at present,” said one of our sources who is involved in the “Minsk dialogue” on the Ukrainian side.

    “They want the imitation of success in the settlement. However, they do not have any answers to our questions about why they’re not reacting to the destruction of Shyrokino, Debaltsevo, Uhlehorsk. This is very frightening because it means we are being left to face Russia alone. But our position is firm: the Minsk agreements are a composite and currently no point of the Minsk agreement is being fulfilled,” he concluded

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    What is interesting about this article is the simple fact that right after Crimea Putin is recorded on Russian TV stating that he had given orders to his Border Security Commander to “secure the border so fighters and weapons could not cross"—NOTICE he says nothing about this nor does the Russain interviewer bring up the Russian TV interview with Putin.


    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...-traffic/#8888

    Russian Security Chief Says Flow of Volunteer Russian Fighters to Ukraine 'Cannot be Stopped'

    00:24 (GMT)

    Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of Russia's Security Council, said that Russian authorities cannot hinder the flow of Russian volunteers to Ukraine to fight with the so-called "militia" in the self-proclaimed "Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics," Kommersant.ru and RBC.ru reported.

    He claimed the US had initiated the conflict in southeastern Ukraine, and repeated a well-worn trope of Russian disinformation. The Interpreter has translated excerpts from the Interview:

    Kommersant: And once again, the US is behind this?

    Patrushev: You have to look objectively at the events. The USA is trying to prove that Russia is a side in the conflict in Ukraine. But that's no so. In fact, the USA itself is the initiator of the conflict in Ukraine.

    Kommersant: How is that?

    Patrushev: You haven't caught my drift...They have initiated all these events. In one of his recent interviews, Barack Obama acknowledged this.

    Kommersant: But he only said that the US was a "facilitator" during the change in government in Kiev...

    Patrushev: The change in government in fact became the impulse for these events which had occurred there. Kerry has an aide [Victoria] Nuland, who published the sum of $5 billion spent on the USA in order to organize these events.

    Kommersant: She said that they had spent $5 billion in support of democratic institutes and civil society.



    Fact Check: The $5 billion is actually all aid given to Ukraine for 20 years, of which some component is for democracy promotion. That means aid given to the Yanukovich regime. Politfact.com, a site that analyzes such claims explained how misleading the Russian claim is that the US "spent $5 billion on anti-government riots" and awarded the claim its "pants on fire" designation which means it is an egregious lie.

    Patrushev: There was a lawfully-elected president, whether you like him or not, it's a question of appraisal, he was legally elected, and no one denies this. But he didn't suit the USA. And although his term as president was coming to an end, and the people of Ukraine would not have re-elected him, they decided to overthrow him forcibly.

    This was their political mistake. If they had waited, then they could have brought in the people they needed lawfully. But they initiated a coup d'etat. If there hadn't been a coup, there wouldn't have been the events in the Crimea and the east of Ukraine.

    Kommersant: But didn't the unrest in Kiev begin after Viktor Yanukovich, under pressure from Moscow, rejected the association with the European Union?

    Patrushev: He postponed the signing of this agreement -- and not under Moscow's pressure. He simply realized that he hadn't sufficiently comprehended the essence of this document and didn't understand what its implementation might lead to. Ukraine is in the free-trade zone of the CIS, and the consequences of this step were simply explained to Yanukovich. He had not taken them into account before and decided to take a pause in order to figure out these issues.

    To accuse Russia of how the events in Ukraine developed is to have cause and effect change places. "The wind blows because the tree is rocking." The initiators of the events in Ukraine are the USA. Through a coup, they brought to power people they control. Meanwhile, the socio-economic situation in Ukraine was worsening, so they had to think up a reason for why that was happening. In their logic, it is explained that Russia is to blame for everything. In fact, they don't care what will happen in Ukraine. They simply have to put pressure on Russia, which the USA is doing.

    Kommersant: You've expressed concern about the presence of Russian volunteers in the ranks of the Islamic State [ISIS]. Why isn't the Russian government concerned about the fact that thousands of Russians head off to fight in the Donbass?

    Patrushev: The Islamic State is a terrorist group, everyone acknowledges that. There are no terrorist groups on the territory of Lugansk and Donetsk regions. Everything could in fact be resolved without a civil war, if the Minsk agreements are followed. But they aren't fulfilled.

    In Ukraine now, even in one family, relatives often take diametrically opposed possitions and argue. This is a civil conflict. We have been providing and continue to provide support to Ukrainian refugees who, in fact, are not accepted either in the EU or in the USR -- but to get involved in a civil conflict is not prudent.

    Kommersant: But the Russian authorities are not hindering Russian Federation citizens from going to fight in the Donbass...

    Patrushev: We don't draft anyone and don't encourage it. But it is impossible really to hinder this. After all, 2 million refugees from Ukraine didn't come to Russia just like that -- they have relatives and friends here. They tell them about the brutalities happening there. And emotions already kicks in -- people go there and take part [in battles--Kommersant.]

    Patrushev said Russia was doing all it could to encourage the Minsk agreements but when asked why they didn't close the border through which armaments and personnel are flowing, Patrushev said:

    We cannot close the border. What can we do, organized a blockade as it was in Leningrad? For the entire population of the Donbass? We're essentially feeding them now, their living conditions are extremely difficult. Although it is said in the Minsk agreements that the Ukrainians themselves must foster the normalization of the social and economic situation both in Lugansk and in Donetsk. But they aren't doing that!

    Here Patrushev dodges the fact that essentially, Russia and the LNR control the border, and do not allow Ukrainian border authorities or the OSCE monitors to inspect the cargo coming in as "humanitarian convoys". OSCE can only monitor, not intercept arms, and it reports regularly of men in camouflage and armor crossing to and from Russia.

    There is no objective reason why Russia couldn't stop the flow of tanks and troops and submit to border inspection; it battled to force Ukrainian border guards away from certain crossings so they could freely cross. Yet a key condition of the Minsk agreement is returning the border back to Ukrainian control, and Patrushev does not comment on this.

    -- Catherine A. Fitzpatrick

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    What is interesting about this article is the simple fact that right after Crimea Putin is recorded on Russian TV stating that he had given orders to his Border Security Commander to “secure the border so fighters and weapons could not cross"—NOTICE he says nothing about this nor does the Russain interviewer bring up the Russian TV interview with Putin.


    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...-traffic/#8888

    Russian Security Chief Says Flow of Volunteer Russian Fighters to Ukraine 'Cannot be Stopped'

    00:24 (GMT)
    NOTICE--neither he nor the interviewer seem to want to get into the simple question OK if you cannot stop Russian mercenaries from crossing into eastern Ukraine WHAT about the massive shipments of fuel, munitions, heavy weapons that cross by rail and convoy almost weekly if not daily????

    A minimum of two Russian Rail shipments a week have been arriving into eastern Ukraine for over the last six months--all documented and verified.

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    Russian propaganda outside of having the 4Ds and 2Ds also uses the concept of reverse flip augments.

    Meaning they will argue that say the Ukraine has been the chief violator of the Minsk 2 by shelling them 31 times when they are the verified violators by the OSCE and JCCC or the Ukraine is getting ready for an invasion of eastern Ukraine thus their need to pull their heavy weapons up to the Minsk 2 contact line and on and on.

    OR they launch a major ground attack verified by OSCE and THEN claim it was the Ukrainians who attacked them.

    They simply take what they will be doing and reverse flip it ---arguing it is what the Ukrainians will be doing--you see this well presented in this interview.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P41SQ20150624

    World | Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:37am EDT
    Related: World, Russia

    Russian former leader of Ukraine rebels warns of 'big war'

    MOSCOW | By Anton Zverev

    A ceasefire is likely to collapse in east Ukraine and Russia could be drawn into a "big war" to cleanse the "sore on its borders", the former leader of the region's pro-Russian separatists said.

    Violence has eased but not halted in east Ukraine under what are known as the Minsk 2 agreements, reached in the Belarussian capital on Feb. 12 after an earlier ceasefire collapsed.

    Alexander Borodai, a Russian citizen and former journalist for nationalist newspapers who emerged last year as prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DNR), said he expects the Ukrainian army to launch a new offensive.

    "To be honest, I expect that the Minsk 2 agreements will not be observed, in the same manner as the Minsk 1 agreements were not," Borodai said in an interview this week in a Moscow restaurant surrounded by former rebel commanders.

    "And at the end of the day the Ukrainian army will launch an offensive. This is a very probable development ... I am not sure that it will end without a big war, as Russia cannot tolerate this sore on its borders forever."

    Borodai stepped aside in favor of a local man as the rebel leader last August but is widely believed to have strong political links in Moscow and an open channel to the Donbass region where the war has unfolded in the last 15 months.

    His leadership of the rebels in the early stages of their rebellion ensured he was often seen on Russian television, and passersby stop him to talk and pat him on the back when they see him on the streets of the Russian capital.

    He also came to worldwide attention as leader of the rebel movement in the area when Malaysian flight MH-17 was shot down by what Western countries believe was a Russian missile fired from rebel territory.

    He personally negotiated with Malaysian authorities to turn over the "black box" flight recorders from the airliner and has always denied that rebel forces were responsible for the crash that killed all 298 people on board the plane.

    The fact that nearly all top figures in the rebel movement at the time were from Russia was awkward for the Kremlin, which maintained that pro-Moscow sentiment was indigenous in eastern Ukraine, and Borodai stepped aside in favor of Alexander Zakharchenko, a former electrician from the area.

    "SANCTIONS WON'T DETER RUSSIA"

    Though fighting is now less intense in east Ukraine, the death toll has continued to rise and is now more than 6,400, with each side accusing the other of planning a new offensive.

    Borodai, 42, said the "half-frozen state" could not continue for long.

    "A big offensive by the Ukrainian troops will mean many casualties among civilians, I am sorry, as well as among the military ... One cannot say Russia doesn't care about Donbass people. Therefore there is a chance Russia won't leave people in the (rebel-led) republics in need," he said.

    Asked whether Russian forces could then intervene, he said: "I admit that Russia may lose patience."

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov declined to comment on Borodai's remarks. The West and Kiev say Russia has already sent troops and weapons into east Ukraine to back the separatists but Moscow denies this.

    Andriy Lysenko, a Ukrainian military spokesman, said Kiev is abiding by the Minsk agreements and denied Ukrainian government forces were preparing an offensive.

    Borodai remains in touch with other Muscovites who held prominent roles as rebel leaders in Ukraine, such as Igor Strelkov, who was the main rebel military commander at the time the Malaysian airliner was shot down.

    Strelkov and Borodai, who fought in Moldova's breakaway Transdniestr region in the 1990s, slipped back into Russia several months ago, deeming their job finished as "patriots" in east Ukraine.

    Borodai, who is banned under Western sanctions from entering the European Union and the United States, says tightening the sanctions will not "frighten" Moscow.

    He reiterated that Russia had not sent troops to east Ukraine, adding that if it had "there would have been no trace of the Ukrainian army left close to Donetsk now."
    Strelkov also fought as a GRU officer with Serbian mercenaries in Kosovo and is reported to be wanted for war crimes there.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-24-2015 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Russian propaganda outside of having the 4Ds and 2Ds also uses the concept of reverse flip augments.

    Meaning they will argue that say the Ukraine has been the chief violator of the Minsk 2 by shelling them 31 times when they are the verified violators by the OSCE and JCCC or the Ukraine is getting ready for an invasion of eastern Ukraine thus their need to pull their heavy weapons up to the Minsk 2 contact line and on and on.

    OR they launch a major ground attack verified by OSCE and THEN claim it was the Ukrainians who attacked them.

    They simply take what they will be doing and reverse flip it ---arguing it is what the Ukrainians will be doing--you see this well presented in this interview.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P41SQ20150624

    World | Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:37am EDT
    Related: World, Russia

    Russian former leader of Ukraine rebels warns of 'big war'

    MOSCOW | By Anton Zverev

    Strelkov also fought as a GRU officer with Serbian mercenaries in Kosovo and is reported to be wanted for war crimes there.
    What is interesting about this small piece of propaganda is the term "half frozen"--in the West media it is often talked about--that eastern Ukraine will sink into a typical Russian "frozen conflict" such as we see in Moldaiva and Georgia.

    What has happen though is that Russia has been effectively "frozen" in their own actions in the eastern Ukraine---meaning they have vastly overreached their timeline and war costs are eating them up and even their own elite Spetsnaz are not able to get a decisive ground breakthrough on the contact line and the Ukrainian Army is showing a surprising resilence that Russia has vastly underestimated.

    The entire eastern Ukraine Russian adventure is costing them a now estimated 40-50M USD per day and that is up from initially 35M per day or say at 40M USD per day 1.2B USD per month.

    Russia is now totally responsible for financially supporting the Donbass, feeding the Donbass, providing fuel, electricity and gas and must provide jobs and social services--that is why they keep complaining that the Ukraine should be doing it under Minsk 2.

    This is not what they envisioned when they started their anti Ukraine UW campaign.

    At some point they will be faced with a critical decision --go for the entire Ukraine or pull out--keeping the Donbass in limbo will kill them economically.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-24-2015 at 03:47 PM.

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    A Quick & Easy guide to reporting #Russia's Troll army. Time 4 #Ukraine to fight back @EuromaidanPress pic.twitter.com/LftT3pYdfo

    Russia #propaganda #trolls' tactics uncovered by #ylekioski (ENG) List of troll-infested int'l forums included. http://kioski.yle.fi/omat/troll-piece-2-english

    Says Kremlin shill GWP who has Russian GRU as armed escort while illegally filming 'child-based' agitprop in #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/F6M6onahMV

    Russian troops of the 7th military base are overdoing it masquerading as “DPR/LPR” mili http://24today.net/open/453340 pic.twitter.com/7kqqfiy0kh

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    Have grown to "love" the Russian propaganda 4Ds--dismiss, distract, distort, dismay designed to created the 2Ds--distrust and doubt.

    The Russian FM Lavrov is great at doing this----

    Classic Lavrov on Minsk process: "there are powers who would like to destroy this process, I won't name them. But such forces exist."

    Notice he simply states the sentence and yet he names absolutely no one but it is a subtle unspoken hint ---the Ukraine.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Below is interesting as it is probably true as the report has been verified from several Ukrainian sources.

    Interesting in that after Minsk 1 and then 2 it was often stated and especially by Russia that the Agreement was to the determent of the Ukraine and in initial reading it appears that way.

    BUT the Ukraine has elegantly fulfilled the basis of the Agreement and literally thrown it back at the Russians meaning the Russians must pull back all foreign fighters, mercenaries, volunteers, vacationers as part of the disarming process and they must submit to open and fair elections conducted using Ukrainian law ---THIS has been mentioned something Russia would never allow thus it trys continually to change Minsk 2 and or modifiy the Minsk 2 which Hahn is trying here to do.

    What the EU rep seems to have forgotten is that once the eastern region has the so called "federalization" that Putin wants WILL they continue to implement Minsk 2--IMHO NO.

    So the question begs to be asked WHO inside the EU is pushing this concept--it just does not appear out of "heaven" one day and then is carried forth--it would though fit what Germany and France have been trying to do--circumvent their own Agreement to appease Russia and give Putin a "victory" in the hopes he will then pull out.

    Talk about Munich 1938 and driven by Germany and France who should actually know better.

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/06/2...mlins-demands/

    Europe pressuring Ukraine to meet Kremlin’s demands

    2015/06/24 • News

    Article by: Serhiy Sydorenko, European Pravda, June 23, 2015
    Interesting trial balloon by the EU it seems-----

    EU denies it asked special status for Donbas prior to ceasefire
    http://www.unian.info/politics/10934...ceasefire.html … pic.twitter.com/8hcdK2JjM3

    Shocked they didn't ask ukr to raise white flag. EU want this conflict to end at almost any cost to ukr.

    Ukraine to have no Illusions about #Europe - by excellent Gemma Porzgen.
    http://iwp.org.ua/eng/public/1572.html … pic.twitter.com/mGdTQFueHZ

    What many EU reps seem not to understand is that the Ukraine is attempting to hold to Minsk 2 at all costs WHILE Russia implements absolutely nothing.

    Russians fire from artillery and mortars, Ukrainians respond with only small arms fire.

    And in another constant ground fight they are returning fire with 82mm mortars against 122mm and 152mm artillery fire.


    AND in the process constantly having loses and wounded--BUT YET Merkel, Hollande and Obama say absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-24-2015 at 08:54 PM.

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    Links Found Between White Supremacist Shooter in Charleston and Russia

    http://www.interpretermag.com/russia...-24-2015/#8913 … pic.twitter.com/Tij3HvKN4i

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    youtube.com/watch?v=0vvxWgrbv-w … This #Russian pagan came all the way fr #Novosibirsk, #Russia, to fight *Nazis* in #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/gQt0AlsJec

    After huge losses during Mariinka battle, Desperate militants have now received reinforcements - Shkiryak
    http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2015/06/24/7072337/

    New #footage of Russian army T-72B1 in #Torez (occupied #Donbas).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHVsB0HSS5g
    pic.twitter.com/wZmGola8ki

    This is WAR, this is Donbas. Stop the war, stop Putin. Video: https://www.facebook.com/kazbek.mage...27841/?fref=nf … pic.twitter.com/zxIK7E1xT7

    Zakharchenko: DNR intends to capture the entire territory of Donbas http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/24-june...tire-territory … via @EgoRZemtsoV

    Russian Trolls Are Deceiving the American Public and Now They're Covering Their Tracks http://buff.ly/1e42c4H

    Watching For Patterns Within the Fighting In Ukraine http://bit.ly/1BN0BLI pic.twitter.com/gDDbXxbOWJ

    Journalists can be enemy combatants declares new U.S. Pentagon DoD manual
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...dist/?page=all … pic.twitter.com/raTSgPRXQ7
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-24-2015 at 09:15 PM.

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    EU/NATO make public plans to counter Russian propaganda and THEN we get this response from the Russian Foreign Minister.


    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #EU violates the right to freedom of speech, forming conditions for total discrimination against Russian media http://tass.ru/en/russia/803709


    EU violates right to freedom of speech — Russian Foreign Ministry

    Russia
    June 24, 21:33 UTC+3

    Mogherini's proposals on the development of a ‘strategy to counter the Kremlin’s propaganda’ is clearly aimed to oust Russian presence in the international media environment, the ministry says

    MOSCOW, June 24. /TASS/. The European Union violates the right to freedom of speech, forming conditions for total discrimination against Russian media, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Wednesday.

    "Proposals of High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Federica Mogherini on the development of a ‘strategy to counter the Kremlin’s propaganda’, presented on June 23 at a meeting of the EU Council... are clearly aimed to oust Russian presence in the international media environment," the ministry said.

    "Following imposition of restrictive measures against Russian journalists, the European Union is trying to form conditions for total discrimination against Russian media," it said.
    This is now the third propaganda concept Russia is now employing;
    1. the 4Ds and 2Ds
    2. the reverse flip meaning I say you are doing something first then I actually do what I claim you are doing

    NOW--the next concept---I can do things BUT then demand you cannot do them.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 06:13 AM.

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    VIDEO #Canada provided blast shielding films for hospitals in #Mariupol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr59nUAHNp4 … pic.twitter.com/2gnkgNTLdA

    BARBARISM A Russia-Hybrid-DPR soldiers receives a public punishment near Krasnyi Partyzan.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olt3Xdo21E0 … pic.twitter.com/IS90ziLeUN

    Ukrainians capture heavily wounded Russian-DPR fighter and although angry with him immediately give medical help. https://twitter.com/raging545/status/613814513125732353

    In Sector M beside #Shyrokyno, russians shelled also @Talakivka w 152-mm howitzers and #Berdyanske with 122-mm artillery.

    Putin send another "aidconvoy" to #Donbas https://twitter.com/StopRussia2014/s...19991562276864

    Donetsk 6:21AM
    "Leninskyi, Citi, Kritiy, Arena quiet.
    Could not sleep from 3AM-4:30AM, heavy outgoing volleys" https://twitter.com/vladicvp/status/613909873898749952

    Donetsk 1:25AM
    Budionovskyi ds - ruscists on some tracked equipment woke up half district with the roar https://twitter.com/UrriKara4en/stat...35620176265216

    Donetsk 2:01AM
    Kalininskyi ds - again hearing volleys https://twitter.com/Donetsk_Ukraine/...45748438974464

    Russians shelled Ukr positions w 152-mm artillery & GRADs, then tried to come close to Ukr positions, attack repelled http://www.ukrinform.ua/ukr/news/boy...kinomu_2067777

    Russian army "#Donetsk corps".
    Looks like russian soldiers favorite vacation destination is #Ukraine. https://twitter.com/BuTaJIu4eK/statu...43913871769600
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 06:19 AM.

  13. #13
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    Another Russian Spetsnaz team identified inside the Ukraine—social media has a thing now for Spetsnaz.

    Hidden b/c entire unit is fr #Russia ("DPR spetsnaz").Chief calls self "Olkhon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yyH75Goyto … pic.twitter.com/8kRR9uZGkh

    [B]News
    Russian forces tried to advance in #Shyrokyne under Msta-B and BM-21 fire last night but were repelled.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 06:32 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    EU/NATO make public plans to counter Russian propaganda and THEN we get this response from the Russian Foreign Minister.


    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #EU violates the right to freedom of speech, forming conditions for total discrimination against Russian media http://tass.ru/en/russia/803709


    EU violates right to freedom of speech — Russian Foreign Ministry

    Russia
    June 24, 21:33 UTC+3

    Mogherini's proposals on the development of a ‘strategy to counter the Kremlin’s propaganda’ is clearly aimed to oust Russian presence in the international media environment, the ministry says



    This is now the third propaganda concept Russia is now employing;
    1. the 4Ds and 2Ds
    2. the reverse flip meaning I say you are doing something first then I actually do what I claim you are doing

    NOW--the next concept---I can do things BUT then demand you cannot do them.
    One of the major myths that Russia just keeps on repeating is that a junta threw out the previous Ukrainian President --supported naturally by the US and the CIA--

    BUT Russia seems to "forget this one minor detail"----

    "virtually everything that happened during the final days of the Maidan was in accordance with the Ukrainian constitution

    AND totally supported by even the political party of the then President--Party of Regions.

    The second myth Russia keeps talking about is the EU Association Treaty which they claim is aimed at damaging the Russian economy---

    BUT what they do not say is that the EU crafted the agreement to fully incorporate the current Ukrainian Russian trade agreements thus not designed to damage Russia in anyway.

    THAT is why when Russia submitted their proposed changes to the Association Treaty the EU Commission simply rejected it and told Russia to not come back with any suggested changes.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 12:29 PM.

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